T3G said:
And that would be faster and more efficient than having a person right there on the scene that can do just that?
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I don't think having armed guards on every corner is an efficient use of resources.

And frankly, most rent-a-cops are useless.
 
I wasn't talking about armed guards, I was talking about having a TTC employee (i.e. a driver) on board the train who can respond to situations as and when they arise, instead of having driverless trains and expecting the unwashed masses to be trained in emergency procedures should something go wrong, be it something that requires intervention from the emergency services or something that requires evacuation of the train.
 
December 9, 2022: Ongoing geotechnical investigation ground sampling work today in the Ontario Line Bathurst King Station area. Totally lost count of the number of times drill rigs have been deployed in our area over the past couple of years.

20221209_111534.jpg
 
And how exactly do other automated systems deal with the variety of safety issues not having an employee poses? I don't believe that the average European or Asian passenger would be any better at evacuating themselves from a burning or derailed train than here.

Nothing is a problem until it is.
 
T3G said:
I wasn't talking about armed guards, I was talking about having a TTC employee (i.e. a driver) on board the train who can respond to situations as and when they arise, instead of having driverless trains and expecting the unwashed masses to be trained in emergency procedures should something go wrong, be it something that requires intervention from the emergency services or something that requires evacuation of the train.
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Just my personal experience but an employee was riding with me when a crackhead started yelling at and hitting people. I asked him when we got out who do I report it to so it's actually noted? He gave me a war veteran look and said there's no point.
 
turbanplanner said:
Just my personal experience but an employee was riding with me when a crackhead started yelling at and hitting people. I asked him when we got out who do I report it to so it's actually noted? He gave me a war veteran look and said there's no point.
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I don't doubt that experience at all; but that employee was extremely unhelpful and perpetuates or makes worse any such issue by saying that.

Said employee may well have had a negative experience with reporting things in the past, but I can say with certainty, not reporting will not make anything better.

And high volumes of reporting have some hope, at least, of getting some attention.

Its also helpful if people know how to report (something that employee might have suggested) by which I mean, don't just email TTC; do that, but make sure and openly copy people up the food chain; and make sure and note that, if the issue is not addressed, you'll be bringing your concern to the media, to whom you are forwarding the correspondence.

No, neither you, nor anyone should have to do that, but in reality, it makes it more likely something will be 'actioned'.
 
No one cares when it requires money to fix the problem. Just wait till everyone quit riding the TTC, then they would realize and start doing things. Otherwise TTC themselves nor the TPS have the capacity to police the subway network. It's not like acting as a crackhead is a criminal offence. They would have to prove they have the drug, prove they are harassing people and our justice system makes it difficult. Also, who wants to deal with these people all day long? Unless you lock them up, you kick them out and they come back in cause they got nothing to do. They need a program in place to get these people to change and laws that will help them accountable.

I'm sure yesterday's incident made headlines big time but what changes would that bring? If they won't fund safety initiatives, everyone will forget after 2 weeks.
 
Because it was a knife ice pick (?) and not a gun, a good Samaritan intervened to prevent the suspect from fleeing.
 
Steve X said:
No one cares when it requires money to fix the problem. Just wait till everyone quit riding the TTC, then they would realize and start doing things. Otherwise TTC themselves nor the TPS have the capacity to police the subway network. It's not like acting as a crackhead is a criminal offence. They would have to prove they have the drug, prove they are harassing people and our justice system makes it difficult. Also, who wants to deal with these people all day long? Unless you lock them up, you kick them out and they come back in cause they got nothing to do. They need a program in place to get these people to change and laws that will help them accountable.

I'm sure yesterday's incident made headlines big time but what changes would that bring? If they won't fund safety initiatives, everyone will forget after 2 weeks.
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Ridership was at 25% for the subway for a while
 
Steve X said:
It's not like acting as a crackhead is a criminal offence.
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High visible presence will be a deterrence.
Steve X said:
Unless you lock them up
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Okay.
Steve X said:
you kick them out and they come back in cause they got nothing to do.
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Kick them out again. If someone is being a nuisance to other passengers, and I'd go so far as to include people who don't take their backpacks off at rush hour, have their feet on the seat, blast their music out loud, etc, then they can gtfo. Come back when you want to behave.
 
afransen said:
I don't think having armed guards on every corner is an efficient use of resources.

And frankly, most rent-a-cops are useless.
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I'll assume most of the people on the forum are men and the perspective of the other 50% of the population is missing.

I was at a dinner party recently with mostly women and the topic of the subway travel came up. Many of the women mentioned how they fear taking the subway and urged the others not to take the subway that night unless they could most of their trip accompanied. Most of them didn't know about the high park stabbing when the discussion started. This isn't the first time I have heard this type of talk either.

As also recently mentioned in the blogto article about the Tapei(?) subway system, the female author positively noted the large security presence at the stations. Regardless of the capability of the 'security theatre', the presence is important for transit ridership on the TTC.
 
Steve X said:
Just wait till everyone quit riding the TTC, then they would realize and start doing things.
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The TTC has lots of people riding the system when they were sitting next to people who had a virus that could kill them via airborne transmission. If you wanted a demonstration of how many people in Toronto have to take their chances even with some personal risk because their circumstances and employment options left no choice, 2020 was a good time to observe it.

While this recent incident was awful, the time to prevent it was before the individual boarded the train - reactive measures like cameras and cops and onboard drivers/guards might minimize the outcome, but it is unlikely to prevent it. The goal should be a city administration that tries to help all its residents and reduce stress especially when people are obliged to be packed in close proximity. What we have is a city which, for example, is reducing the distance between shelter beds to save money and avoid adding shelter beds in neighbourhoods where residents cry at the thought.
 
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