[kEiThZ]

Same place all the people simping for Metrolinx are. This thread.

Who is "simping" for Metrolinx? I think most people agree ML definitely has issues to fix. I said this earlier:

I personally didn't vote for this government. I don't think Metrolinx is great or has consulted enough.

For most of us, it's just a strong bias towards getting things done and not getting overly tied up with bureaucratic politics. That Metrolinx is flawed should not normally be enough to throw out the baby with the bathwater or impose substantial delays.

 

[kv1990]

Simcoe St entrance's connection to line 1
I can't see it happening unless they do a cut-and-cover pedestrian tunnel under Queen St. to connect with existing concourse.

Maybe it's something that can be tackled as part of the 250 University development?

 

[11th]

Maybe it's something that can be tackled as part of the 250 University development?

However, that makes more sense as a non-fare paid zone connection.
I guess they can add another row of fare gates between that and whatever underground level of the west keyhole (Simcoe St. entrance) it's connected to.

 

[picard102]

For most of us, it's just a strong bias towards getting things done and not getting overly tied up with bureaucratic politics. That Metrolinx is flawed should not normally be enough to throw out the baby with the bathwater or impose substantial delays.

What's a substantial delay for a project that will take 10 years?
7 months to change this stations design? A year? They threw this together pretty fast, I'm sure they can come up with alternatives in a reasonable time frame if they're not grossly incompetent.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It's exceptionally rare for NIMBYs to be flat out opposed to something. The new NIMBYism is the, "Yes but...." variety, where NIMBYs keep demanding changes without consideration to schedule, cost or feasibility, untill the project is either rammed through or scope creep kills it.

The very fact that this discussion started about a station box and has now moved on to questioning everything about the project, the organization that runs it and the government funding it, makes me question the sincerity of critics who claim to really, really want transit. Seems to me, most want transit built exclusively on their terms or not at all.

I personally didn't vote for this government. I don't think Metrolinx is great or has consulted enough. But I will sure take a slightly flawed project sooner than put up with months or years of delays. And I daresay, that I am probably closer to public sentiment on this, than the folks who see this as opportunity to settle scores with Metrolinx.

"Never let perfect be the enemy of good." -A concept that I think of lot of people in this city and even country seem to struggle with.

Not even sure we can blame Ford, this route was on the books for MX since the late 2000's. I agree, it's time to build. MX deserves the criticism (Crosstown!) but it is what it is now. Let's get on with it.
~~~~~~~
We didn't need a new entrance for Osgoode anyway. What is the is fine. Focus on the actual tunnel, platforms and rolling stock. MX always brings this stuff on themselves.

Seems i got some flack for being optimistic.
To be clear. please, prove me wrong. still havent seen anyone with engineer experience comment on that report saying that independent report is wrong? just that they think it might be

and remember why this is only an issue now and why it SEEMED metrolinx kinda rushed to cut the trees.
They (imo rightfully) saw the report as a go/no-go for construction, they knew they were right so with the only ask from the community resolved they felt they were good.

maybe ive been bit peeved by riverside/flemingdon park/smalls creek/yonge north residents theese last few years who always change their ask after their original ask is resolved (move the goalposts)

Again i want to be proven wrong, everyone who says metrolinx is a bad organization who gives no care for the enviroment god i want it to be true. but please prove it other than hyperbole

I absolutely agree with you here, especially the folks who supported the LRT in Scarborough and then complained about Jimmie Simpson. But that is not the same as this thing at Osgoode. We don't expensive stations. We need a subway built soon.

 

[generalcanada]

Not even sure we can blame Ford, this route was on the books for MX since the late 2000's. I agree, it's time to build. MX deserves the criticism (Crosstown!) but it is what it is now. Let's get on with it.
~~~~~~~
We didn't need a new entrance for Osgoode anyway. What is the is fine. Focus on the actual tunnel, platforms and rolling stock. MX always brings this stuff on themselves.


I absolutely agree with you here, especially the folks who supported the LRT in Scarborough and then complained about Jimmie Simpson. But that is not the same as this thing at Osgoode. We don't expensive stations. We need a subway built soon.

wait im confused, do you agree that the community is moving the goalposts or not?

 

[SashaLemon]

I guess we can be thankful that we are even in the position to complain about how our regional transit agency is building new projects, a lot of agencies in other places are barely building anything. Not that I have to point this out to anybody here, but look at all the projects they are buildings:

Metrolinx - Projects & Programs

GO Expansion

Learn more about what we're building as part of the GO Expansion program.

www.metrolinx.com

I'd rather have this then say, Houston Texas's METRO!
We do have to keep complaining though, we want to keep pushing to get even better results. But we also have to realize that what we are doing here is better then most (if not all) regions in North America as far as building new stuff.

 

[DirectionNorth]

That is quite enough, thank you! Just because I do not agree with you on how the project should be executed does not give you a right to suggest I am somehow not a transit advocate, or question my motives. Everyone here clearly has the city's best interests in mind, we just have different visions on how to get there. Casting aspersions on one's motives derails the discussion and gives the forum a bad name.

As for your actual argument, that line of thinking is exactly what we don't need in transit (except for the part about off the shelf designs, but I highly doubt designing a 75 foot subway car that is otherwise standard in the parts it uses is an insurmountable task).

Transit is not supposed to be cutting edge, it's supposed to be functional. If the design still works (and manifestly it does, otherwise the TTC would have gone back to the drawing board for the proposed T1 replacement rather than building on more of the same), and there is no urgent argument in favour of doing so, such as wheelchair accessibility or energy efficiency, what need is there to change it, exactly? I'm not saying that this is what's going to happen to the Hitachi trains, but progress for progress' sake is what got us white elephants like the SRT. Ask any rider on the next subway platform you step on and I'm sure they'll agree, provided they are not Gadgetbahn enthusiasts, that having a proven type of vehicle, albeit with the regular comforts passengers have come to expect in the 21st century, would be superior to having something that is cutting edge and doesn't work.

And I don't see where you are getting the idea that this "technology" is outdated, anyway, considering I haven't actually said anything at all about the type of technology that should be used on the trains, just their length. If the new Hitachi things were the dimensions of a TTC subway car, but kept everything else intact, they'd hardly be out of date.

And why stop there? There is nothing about subway trains that is modern to begin with, they have been around for more than 150 years. If pushing technology to its limits is the goal here, why not make the Ontario Line into a maglev or something? Or ask Elon Musk to build his Hyperloop in its place?

Progress for progrsss' sake is bad.

If that is enough to offend you, you should take a break from UT.

The Ontario Line uses trains and technology that is about as standard as you can get. It's the standard in every country where transit is actually advanced, but no, everything needs to be Made-in-Toronto.

Same place all the people simping for Metrolinx are. This thread.

Okay, so everyone you disagree with is "simping for Metrolinx". Great argument, we're all convinced.

What's a substantial delay for a project that will take 10 years?
7 months to change this stations design? A year? They threw this together pretty fast, I'm sure they can come up with alternatives in a reasonable time frame if they're not grossly incompetent.

Yeah, let's delay the most crucial transit project since Bloor-Yonge, because somebody doesn't like that some trees will be cut down. Or they're using the transit as a proxy for an agency they don't like.

In this thread, we have people complaining about the impact to the trees, then the impact to buildings (at other sites), then delays due to underpinning issues at Eglinton-Yonge. A subway line doesn't magically appear, it needs to be built somehow.

 

[picard102]

Okay, so everyone you disagree with is "simping for Metrolinx". Great argument, we're all convinced.

As convincing as the arguments otherwise, that somehow this change would be the end of transit.

Yeah, let's delay the most crucial transit project since Bloor-Yonge, because somebody doesn't like that some trees will be cut down.

More reductionist nonsense. We're all convinced.

 

[kEiThZ]

What's a substantial delay for a project that will take 10 years?

You tell me. Apply this logic to every conflict on the OL and across multiple projects. What do you think the outcome would be to the city? Especially in the context of some record immigration rates and growth.

Put it this way. The Ontario Line is supposed to take 28 000 cars off the road. How long do you think it's acceptable to delay that outcome to achieve absolute perfection?

It's arguments like these that have the rest of us wondering if those using trees to fight a proxy war with Metrolinx are serious about transit.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

wait im confused, do you agree that the community is moving the goalposts or not?

I agree their moving the goal posts. I also think the design sucks and we don't need a new station entrance.

 

[SashaLemon]

I agree their moving the goal posts. I also think the design sucks and we don't need a new station entrance.

Saying the design sucks when the all the other entrances to Osgoode suck in their own right.

Would it kill them to put in signs with line symbols?

 

[T3G]

Saying the design sucks when the all the other entrances to Osgoode suck in their own right.

Would it kill them to put in signs with line symbols?
View attachment 455016

I see no issue with this entrance design, except for the lack of a pair of elevators to go with it.

These kinds of entrances are compatible with a dense, pre-existing downtown area.

 

[smallspy]

Where's all the folks complaining about how evil and incompetent Metrolinx is?

Most of us have been here all along.

Dan

 

[picard102]

You tell me.

10%. Which is likely smaller than the time this project will be delayed in the normal course of transit construction by ML in this city.

Apply this logic to every conflict on the OL and across multiple projects.

Which other conflicts are there that impact the public this way?

Put it this way. The Ontario Line is supposed to take 28 000 cars off the road. How long do you think it's acceptable to delay that outcome to achieve absolute perfection?

If it's so vital to take those cars off the road, why are you not advocating for it to be expedited even further? The only barrier here is money. How much money would be too much?

It's arguments like these that have the rest of us wondering if those using trees to fight a proxy war with Metrolinx are serious about transit.

Then you are boxing shaddows.