[ksun]

Again, where does this idea come from? If you go to Shanghai or Prague or Washington chances are you're going to get around the core of the city by subway, not bus or streetcar, unless the latter goes somewhere the subway doesn't. Toronto didn't keep streetcars for local service on Yonge, Bloor or the Danforth. As I said, the vast majority of riders will choose the subway. As for service problems on the subway, people will do what seems like a foreign concept in Toronto currently: take a parallel subway instead of your usual line. That will actually be possible when the RL is complete.

To repeat, subways are for local service. This notion that they aren't seems to be a weird Toronto phenomenon.

Very true. I don't understand why many Torontonians have this commuting vs. local service difference in their head. Even in hyper dense cities such as inner Shanghai and Tokyo, subway stops are not 400m apart (feel free to check), and bus stops are definitely not 200m apart. As long as it is under 10 minutes, people always choose to walk to the subway station, not the buses. I simply don't understand why so many tend to think if the subway stations require a 5-7 minutes walk, then people would prefer taking the ultra-slow streetcars to save 2-3 minutes of walking. It is simply wrong. I saw the 97 occasionally and every time there are fewer than 5 passengers, so what's the point? Who really takes 97 south of Eglinton Ave? It is completely redundant.

All subways in Shanghai are "local service". What else are they? They are not commuting trains from the suburbs directly to the CBD.

In terms of the 501, honestly, how often do we really take it from the west end all the way to the east end, without getting off between Spadina and Yonge? Maybe 5% of the time?

 

[ksun]

I still think more entrances and longer walkway to get coverage is the key. the walkways could have mini-retail spaces to enhance private sector involvement. It's quite common practice in other cities. I've seen stations have 10 entrances connecting to the nearby offices/malls/landmarks in downtown that has far more populations than Toronto.

Xujiahui Station in Shanghai has 19 exits. People's square station has 18.
In Paris, the longest walk at les halles station is 900m, which is similar as from King street to Dundas street.
Toronto should start to behave like a big city. Right now it thinks like a city the size of Ottawa.

 

[Hopkins123]

Xujiahui Station in Shanghai has 19 exits. People's square station has 18.
In Paris, the longest walk at les halles station is 900m, which is similar as from King street to Dundas street.
Toronto should start to behave like a big city. Right now it thinks like a city the size of Ottawa.

Finch Station has a lot of exits!

 

[minilude]

Xujiahui Station in Shanghai has 19 exits. People's square station has 18.
In Paris, the longest walk at les halles station is 900m, which is similar as from King street to Dundas street.
Toronto should start to behave like a big city. Right now it thinks like a city the size of Ottawa.

Shanghai's subway system brought a tear to John Tory's eye - last time I read from Toronto star.

 

[minilude]

Finch Station has a lot of exits!

the tunnel leads to 5775 Yonge St should be extended another 150m to serve Cummer intersection (Newton Brook plaza), which could eliminate the need to build a massive new station (given the examples in the vaughan extension..those new stations look like candidates to win architectural awards)

 

[Euphoria]

I hope no streetcar infrastructure is removed. It would cost hundreds of millions to lay out the tracks that some are proposing be removed. The streetcars provide additional capacity that can be put to use on short notice. In a large rapidly growing city which could eventually require duplicate lines along the same routes, it would be foolish to remove precious transit infrastructure. We can deploy fewer streetcars with less frequency, or decide for a time not to run cars on these tracks altogether, but don't dare remove them. I wish we'd kept streetcars on Bloor and on Yonge. Maybe we wouldn't face the overcrowding issues we're having now. The streetcars also convey a village character that is very Toronto. Most of the North American cities that once had streetcars are spending huge sums to restore or build new LRT's.

 

[ksun]

Shanghai's subway system brought a tear to John Tory's eye - last time I read from Toronto star.

It should. Shanghai had its first subway line in 1995.

People here used to say "but it is easier under a dictatorship!" as if that explains everything. As far as I know, no Shanghainese was complaining about the money wasted in building 14 lines in the past 20 years. The scariest thing is, they are not stopping: between 2016 and 2020, a whopping 147 new stations (under construction right now) will be added to the 364 exiting ones, and another 127 to be added (under planning) by 2025.

Everyone will be happy if construction of the DRL starts by 2025, and the project will likely take 10-12 years after that. By 2025 what we will have is the Crosstown and the 5 new stations on the Spadina line. That's it. It is the difference between supersonic airplane and a horse drawn cart. How can Tory not cry .

 

[ksun]

I hope no streetcar infrastructure is removed. It would cost hundreds of millions to lay out the tracks that some are proposing be removed. The streetcars provide additional capacity that can be put to use on short notice. In a large rapidly growing city which could eventually require duplicate lines along the same routes, it would be foolish to remove precious transit infrastructure. We can deploy fewer streetcars with less frequency, or decide for a time not to run cars on these tracks altogether, but don't dare remove them. I wish we'd kept streetcars on Bloor and on Yonge. Maybe we wouldn't face the overcrowding issues we're having now. The streetcars also convey a village character that is very Toronto. Most of the North American cities that once had streetcars are spending huge sums to restore or build new LRT's.

There is overcrowding issues on the Bloor line? First time I hear it. I take it during rush hours several times, and not once was the BD line "over-crowded". I even got seat from changing at Bloor.
The Yonge line is crowded only during certain hours, but I don't believe for a second that riders will opt for buses/street cars because of that. You wait for 4 trains to get in and it is still miles faster than taking a streetcar which makes a stop every 200 meters.

 

[MisterF]

I think as long as any point of Queen Street is within easy walking distance of a subway station, very few people will take the streetcar for "local service". At that point running streetcars will make no sense.

Most of the North American cities that once had streetcars are spending huge sums to restore or build new LRT's.

Not on top of subway lines they're not.

 

[Edward Skira]

Not on top of subway lines they're not.

Its one thing to remove the streetcars from Yonge when the entire line was basically replaced by the subway. But removing it from Queen when the subway will only run from Broadview to Bay? Makes no sense.

 

[nfitz]

As far as I know, no Shanghainese was complaining about the money wasted in building 14 lines in the past 20 years.

That because those that did were imprisoned and tortured.

Let's stop comparing a brutal military dictatorship to an advanced democracy.

 

[MisterF]

Its one thing to remove the streetcars from Yonge when the entire line was basically replaced by the subway. But removing it from Queen when the subway will only run from Broadview to Bay? Makes no sense.

You're not the first to point this out. But that's just the first phase. The full length along Queen Street from Pape to Roncesvalles is 9 km, which is significantly longer than the original Yonge line.

 

[A Torontonian Now]

Xujiahui Station in Shanghai has 19 exits. People's square station has 18.
In Paris, the longest walk at les halles station is 900m, which is similar as from King street to Dundas street.
Toronto should start to behave like a big city. Right now it thinks like a city the size of Ottawa.

Hey! What's wrong with Ottawa?

 

[gweed123]

Hey! What's wrong with Ottawa?

3 more downtown stations under construction than Toronto has right now .

 

[Forgotten]

Gimping the relief line to justify keeping the streetcar is completely backwards.

It's already being gimped by going via Queen to justify Tory's train delusions so why not go for the grand slam?