denfromoakvillemilton said:
True, but then they should have done that in the first place. Now it just looks like they are responding to complaints.
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If they would plan for it to be extended well north (maybe Seneca College) - then Don Mills subway will work. If they want it to be from Pape to Union, then it should be called a Queen subway or Downtown subway - depending on the exact route. Since they seem incapable of making a decision one what this line should do, they can call it anything they want and it still will not gain popularity outside the transit geek community.
 
Hopefully they'll realize the potential of the GO lines and plan an integrated mass transit system using traditional subways and regional rail. The Big Move talks about that kind of system, but there aren't any details yet.
 
I'd call it the King or Queen subway, even if it wouldn't follow either of those corridors exactly. 'Downtown-' anything does sound too specific for our parochial system, and 'relief line' just sounds vague. Obviously everyone knows King and Queen are downtown streets, but they're also Toronto's main commercial streets. I think that would give the project a pan-municipal vibe which everyone could identify with, kinda like the CN Tower. It may also tie into a kind of Ford-ian, 'steetcars don't belong on such an important street' kinda logic for some people.

Plus, those names are just intuitive. Even people well outside the transit geek community can intuitively see why those streets could justify rapid transit. As a child I'd heard about the Queen subway long before the 'DRL.'

The other possibility could be bundling the DRL together with a bunch of RER lines. I've always liked this idea. It would also tie the 905 and Metrolinx very firmly into the project. Since the Province/Feds will have to fund >80% of this thing anyways, that would have good political benefits as suburban rapid transit upgrades would hinge on the DRL.
 
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I'd call it the U2 line since it's Toronto's second U line. It has popculture appeal and also references something from the Cold War, when the original U line was built.
 
MisterF said:
Hopefully they'll realize the potential of the GO lines and plan an integrated mass transit system using traditional subways and regional rail. The Big Move talks about that kind of system, but there aren't any details yet.
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Yes! Please! It's so frustrating having an underused commuter rail system. There's so much potential and everyone is oblivious to it. There's no reason people should be making a 45 minute trip from Scarborough to Union on TTC when the exact same thing can be done in less than 20 on GO.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Yes! Please! It's so frustrating having an underused commuter rail system. There's so much potential and everyone is oblivious to it. There's no reason people should be making a 45 minute trip from Scarborough to Union on TTC when the exact same thing can be done in less than 20 on GO.
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I would not say oblivious. Everyone I talk to thinks that GO needs to be better utilized. Since nothing seems to be getting done, they just assume that TTC needs to go it alone.
 
MisterF said:
Hopefully they'll realize the potential of the GO lines and plan an integrated mass transit system using traditional subways and regional rail. The Big Move talks about that kind of system, but there aren't any details yet.
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That's a huge shortcoming of the Big Move plan. They place these pretty sounding Mobility Hubs but then really do nothing with them other than placing dots on a map. There is no mention of how Metrolinx + Municipality plan to leverage the Hubs through development and planning to benefit not only the Hub locally but also the GTHA as a region. Very very few of these Hubs show any planning at all and where there is they are usually in the 905 belt and not Toronto (RHC, VMC and to a lessor extent Kitchener come to mind).

Take for example the Dundas West Mobility Hub. There is Streetcar, Subway, Regional Rail, and Bus service in this area. Yet none of the documentation talks about setting out a development plan for the area. Let's say the city decides to plop 10 000 jobs (through development planning and zoning), even if 5% of those workers arrived via Go trains (most would arrive from local transit) that still is a ridership of 500 that are on the GO and are NOT taxing Union station as they get off before Union, or are freeing up capacity to other riders. Throw in some residential intensification and you create a nice little hub that both attracts and provides passengers efficiently.

It's a shame but I feel that planning and development in Toronto is so slow and conservative. Nobody wants to rock the boat and propose some significant zoning changes in order to promote hubs like these. In Toronto we just like to put dots on a map and hope that things develop organically on their own.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Yes! Please! It's so frustrating having an underused commuter rail system. There's so much potential and everyone is oblivious to it. There's no reason people should be making a 45 minute trip from Scarborough to Union on TTC when the exact same thing can be done in less than 20 on GO.
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Oblivious? Really? Funny I was just talking to a buddy of mine at my PT job about GO. I was telling him how GO in my neck of the woods (I'm closest to the Kitchener line) is only beneficial if you work a traditional 9 - 5 job and that if you work anything other than that it is pointless to ride the GO. I only get 5 trains at my station and they all arrive between 5 am and 9 am in the morning and depart between 3 pm and 7 pm in the evening. Not conducive if you are going to stay past 7 pm.

He has the same situation. He lives close to Kennedy station and usually winds up taking the TTC because the last train leaves Union at 7:30 pm and our job usually has us working until 10:30.

So it's not just being oblivious to GO I think most people do look at it but then realize that it only works if you have a 9 - 5 job. GO needs to realize that there is a whole other market of riders that it can reach if only it had all-day, or near all-day service.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
That's a huge shortcoming of the Big Move plan. They place these pretty sounding Mobility Hubs but then really do nothing with them other than placing dots on a map. There is no mention of how Metrolinx + Municipality plan to leverage the Hubs through development and planning to benefit not only the Hub locally but also the GTHA as a region. Very very few of these Hubs show any planning at all and where there is they are usually in the 905 belt and not Toronto (RHC, VMC and to a lessor extent Kitchener come to mind).

Take for example the Dundas West Mobility Hub. There is Streetcar, Subway, Regional Rail, and Bus service in this area. Yet none of the documentation talks about setting out a development plan for the area. Let's say the city decides to plop 10 000 jobs (through development planning and zoning), even if 5% of those workers arrived via Go trains (most would arrive from local transit) that still is a ridership of 500 that are on the GO and are NOT taxing Union station as they get off before Union, or are freeing up capacity to other riders. Throw in some residential intensification and you create a nice little hub that both attracts and provides passengers efficiently.

It's a shame but I feel that planning and development in Toronto is so slow and conservative. Nobody wants to rock the boat and propose some significant zoning changes in order to promote hubs like these. In Toronto we just like to put dots on a map and hope that things develop organically on their own.
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Something most people don't realize is that Places to Grow and the Big Move are supposed to be built out in coordination with each other. The concentration hubs for P2G coordinate for the most part with mobility hubs.

The problem is both have grown out of synch. Some places, like Mississauga City Centre, Downtown Toronto, and Downtown Markham have have had their major condo/building growth grow majorly before their Big Move projects. Others, like Vaughan Metro Centre, have transit incoming, but their land development isn't happening. Then we have several places like DT Brampton and the ones in Durham which aren't having either happen.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
That's a huge shortcoming of the Big Move plan. They place these pretty sounding Mobility Hubs but then really do nothing with them other than placing dots on a map. There is no mention of how Metrolinx + Municipality plan to leverage the Hubs through development and planning to benefit not only the Hub locally but also the GTHA as a region. Very very few of these Hubs show any planning at all and where there is they are usually in the 905 belt and not Toronto (RHC, VMC and to a lessor extent Kitchener come to mind).

Take for example the Dundas West Mobility Hub. There is Streetcar, Subway, Regional Rail, and Bus service in this area. Yet none of the documentation talks about setting out a development plan for the area. Let's say the city decides to plop 10 000 jobs (through development planning and zoning), even if 5% of those workers arrived via Go trains (most would arrive from local transit) that still is a ridership of 500 that are on the GO and are NOT taxing Union station as they get off before Union, or are freeing up capacity to other riders. Throw in some residential intensification and you create a nice little hub that both attracts and provides passengers efficiently.

It's a shame but I feel that planning and development in Toronto is so slow and conservative. Nobody wants to rock the boat and propose some significant zoning changes in order to promote hubs like these. In Toronto we just like to put dots on a map and hope that things develop organically on their own.
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Well to be fair, most of the mobility hubs in the city are already densely populated and have significant growth happening already. The problem, IMO, is more that there's still no integration between GO and the TTC. Make Dundas West into a proper hub with seamless GO/TTC transfers and fare integration and it would transform how people get around the city, even if there's no intensification at all. There's a lot of demand for service that doesn't exist yet.
 
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