drum118 said:
Why would you need them if the Yonge line will see 35-45% less riders once the DRL opens?
Click to expand...

The Yonge Line south of Bloor will be the only section seeing less riders should a DRL be built. I'm more than confident that will be offset by increases from stations north of Bloor and from the Richmond Hill extension.

It's true that Platform Doors likely won't be installed until the rolling stock is standardized on the YUS. However, it shouldn't matter if the Toronto Rocket (not "RedRrocket") trains haven seven or six cars. The door spacing should be identical, and you can retrofit an extra screen door at the end of the platform should a 7-car train be used.
 
Its been mentioned that a 7th car would be shorter then the existing cars, and would be added in the middle, so its not likely that the door spacing would be identical.
 
299 bloor call control. said:
The Yonge Line south of Bloor will be the only section seeing less riders should a DRL be built. I'm more than confident that will be offset by increases from stations north of Bloor and from the Richmond Hill extension.

It's true that Platform Doors likely won't be installed until the rolling stock is standardized on the YUS. However, it shouldn't matter if the Toronto Rocket (not "RedRrocket") trains haven seven or six cars. The door spacing should be identical, and you can retrofit an extra screen door at the end of the platform should a 7-car train be used.
Click to expand...

You are assuming to much on that 7th car and the location of the doors on it. Until that decision is made to go to 7 car is made, nothing is going to happen on screens.

Until the rocket is 100% in place (2014) for the Full Length of it, you cannot start installing screens. You need 14 walls of screens just for the Yonge line south of Bloor at a cost of $168m and does not allow for any upgrading to the ventilation system.

To do the whole system, you are looking at over $1.5b+ and that month can be put to ""better"" use at this time.
 
Considering it hasn't been designed, any additional car will be designed to have equal door spacing. You can chop an existing car in half and put it in the middle and the door spacing will still be identical. It's called designing.

And like subway doors, platform screen doors are like subway car doors and you can control which ones open and which ones don't. The issue is not 7th car or not 7th car, it's cost and the need for standardized vehicles. That's it.

BTW, you're assuming equally as much as I am.
 
299 bloor call control. said:
Considering it hasn't been designed, any additional car will be designed to have equal door spacing. You can chop an existing car in half and put it in the middle and the door spacing will still be identical. It's called designing.

And like subway doors, platform screen doors are like subway car doors and you can control which ones open and which ones don't. The issue is not 7th car or not 7th car, it's cost and the need for standardized vehicles. That's it.

BTW, you're assuming equally as much as I am.
Click to expand...

Even if the door spacing on the 7th car is the same as the existing cars, 6 and 7 car trains would only be compatible with the same set of doors if the door spacing is equal throughout the entire length of the train. The door spacing between the end doors of two adjoining cars appears to be wider than two doors on the same car. Therefor adding a shorter car in the middle of a train would push those wider gaps between cars to different locations along a platform, and the doors would not match up.

This is from looking at the T1's, and it looks like the TR cars will be the same dimensionally as the T1's, could be wrong though.
 
City urges `relief' subway line from Pape to Union

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/579531

City urges `relief' subway line from Pape to Union


Toronto wants it put ahead of the $2.4 billion plan for a Yonge extension north to Richmond Hill

Jan 30, 2009 04:30 AM

A TTC "relief'' subway line, a 20-year-old concept that died in the late 1980s, was resurrected this week at Toronto council amid heightened sensitivities over the future of mass transit in the region.

Councillors voted 31-13 to ask Metrolinx to give a higher priority in its 15-year plan to the downtown relief line – a subway or underground light rail that would run south from Pape or Donlands station to link directly to Union Station, and potentially continue west and north to Dundas West or Keele station.

The line is included in Metrolinx's regional transportation plan, but on a more hazy horizon of 25 years.

Toronto now wants it put ahead of the $2.4 billion plan to extend the Yonge line north to Richmond Hill.

Mary-Frances Turner, vice-president of the York Region Rapid Transit Corp., was cool to any idea of revisiting the long-term plan.

The relief line's spot in the queue was determined after thorough consultation with a lot of parties, including Toronto, Turner says.

"We'd want (Metrolinx) to be very careful about that kind of significant change to a plan that was two years in the making."

But Toronto councillor and former TTC commissioner Michael Thompson, who steered the relief line discussions this week, says Metrolinx should revisit its plans because Toronto's system is bursting at the seams, with riders sometimes waiting through three or four downtown trains to get on.

"Everyone is looking into the extension into York. What's going to happen to the system in the downtown core? No one is dealing with that," Thompson said.

Before this week, Toronto already had a list of conditions before giving its blessing to the Yonge line expansion, slated to open in 2017.

The relief line was a hot topic in the late 1980s and a priority in Network 2011, a blueprint crafted by planners from the old Metro government and the TTC. Its proposed subway improvements called for a relief line estimated then to cost $565 million. (TTC officials this week put the cost of the eastern portion at $2.1 billion.)

By 1990, the idea was dead.

Transit advocate Steve Munro says the scheme lost momentum when more attention began to be paid to growth in the outer suburbs.

The early 1990s recession led to lower ridership and, eventually, transit cutbacks.

Only recently has overall demand for mass transit returned to historic Toronto levels, Munro says, and the downtown subway system as constituted is no longer able to keep pace.
 
Best transit news in a very long time.

So if everything is done correctly, DRL will open before Richmod Hill.

Congrats to everyone who helped make DRL a priority.
 
299 bloor call control. said:
Platform Screen Doors isn't just for safety, there are a lot of other advantages. First, people know where to queue to board the train allowing for much more orderly boarding. Second, the station environment can be much better controlled, creating closed environments - leading to the possibility of heating or cooling of stations.
Click to expand...

If the DRL is decided to use a rail corridor route, with a large chunk of the line above ground, this would be a really worthwhile investment. Toronto gets freaking cold. If an extra few million a station would let them be heated, then it would be worthwhile.
 
Hopefully this does not mean that both DRL and Yonge extention are delayed until both are still unbuilt in 20 years.
 
If the Airport Rail Link (Blue 22¾) will use Union Station and Bloor (Dundas West), and the GO trains will use Union Station and Bloor (Dundas West), then the DRL should bypass Union Station entirely. It should be north of Union, concentrated between Queen and King Street, but leave the streetcars on Queen and King as local service.
 
As the whole idea of the line, is to relieve the Yonge line, perhaps one question that should be asked, is which station pair yields the most passengers. Pape-Dundas, Pape-Queen, Pape-King, Pape-Union. Should be a relatively straight-forward exercise with their demand model.
 
They did exactly those kinds of studies in the 1980s. While demand has certainly changed somewhat, they made allowances for most of the developments that have happened since. They looked at five possible alignments: Queen, King, Wellington/Front, Front/Rail Corridor, and Rail Corridor. Queen was dismissed in the first stages as the worst at serving existing and planned development. The rail-corridor-only route was dismissed because it didn't offer a convenient transfer with the existing subway downtown. The King alignment served existing (in the 80s) development quite effectively, but it was technically difficult to construct and did not effectively serve planned development around and south of Front. The Wellington/Front and Front/Railway alignments were held over for further examination. Both were found to be roughly comparable in terms of service provided, but the former was to be entirely underground with some serious technical issues around the garage under University Avenue while the latter would be on the surface in the rail corridor east of Yonge. The cost savings were found to more than outweigh any advantages of the Wellington route. Note that the study also didn't take into account the large waterfront developments planned for the East Bayfront that would be much closer to the rail corridor. The Wellington route was retained as a possible alternative if negotiations failed with CN and CP to use the rail corridor--not an issue now that the TTR is owned by GO Transit.
 
Last edited:
You want the interchange to be as far north as reasonably possible, so as to divert more trips away from the YUS. If this DRL intersects it at Union it seems less likely that people going to say, Queen or Dundas stations will choose it over the Yonge line. Put the new line within walking distance of more destinations and they won't need to transfer to the YUS line at all.

It would also be a good idea to have the new line drop off passengers somewhere other than Union given existing pedestrian congestion in the PATH during rush hour. An added bonus would be the ability to distribute passengers over 2 (or 3 with the addition of a station between York and King streets) instead of concentrating everything in one station.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top