[rbt]

If we really wanted a tunneled highway going through downtown, it would probably be cheaper to build the highway at grade and rebuild our surface streets on top of it!

The second floors of all the skyscrapers could become the groundfloors!!!

Chicago Style. I like it.

 

[BurlOak]

Going shallow absolutely will not be possible.

There are huge Enwave pipes down there, PATH, condos, tons of old utilities.

Here is an Enwave tunnel. They exist all over under downtown.

Another thing to remember is that the station, maybe 150m, needs to be located near the surface. Already 200m away, the tunnel the subway line can be 5 or 6m below grade, if needed.

So with TBM deep stations, these utilities need to be relocation over 200m. For shallow, they need to be relocated over 400 to 600m. Either way they may have to be relocated. I am guessing relocating these will not add up to the 100's of millions that could be saved.

 

[Euphoria]

If you can't see the advantages of connecting city to lake and improving Lakeshore Blvd., I can't help you.

Clever reference to Chicago, which built Michigan Ave. above parallel express roads.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't understand the point of this thread. AFAIK, there are no plans for a DRL, no funding or feasibility studies going on or planned.

Progress on the Relief Line is moving rapidly. City Planning has selected a route and station alignments. Work will now begin on the Transit Project Assessment Process. My understanding is that this is the final stage of project review, before the construction phase (request for proposal, bids from construction firms, etc...) can begin. It hasn't yet been said how long the TPAP process will take for the Relief Line, but the same process for Eglinton Crosstown was completed in only 9 months, August 2008 to May 2009.

At that point the procurement process can begin, which should take about a year based on prior projects. So if the timelines are similar for the Relief Line, contacts could be signed for its construction in as little as a year and 9 months. In reality it should take a little longer than that, since it does take time for governments to secure billions of dollars and determine spending timelines.

 

[M II A II R II K]

So they can start digging in 2018 and open the first phase by 2025, just in time to accommodate the BD extension additional traffic.

 

[WislaHD]

So they can start digging in 2018 and open the first phase by 2025, just in time to accommodate the BD extension additional traffic.

$$$$$$$$$$

2018 is also an election year, how nice.

 

[pstogios]

I don't understand the point of this thread. AFAIK, there are no plans for a DRL, no funding or feasibility studies going on or planned.

Even the city planner bemoans the omission of any DRL in the latest proposals http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/01/city-releases-smarttrack-ridership-projections

Is this thread just a platform for posting transit porn and wishful thinking?

^^^^THIS

YES the RL is critically needed, but all the evidence points to the fact that our politicians totally lack the ability to deliver this line (at least within a timeframe appropriate to addressing the juncture of Line 1 reaching critical over-capacity).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

$$$$$$$$$$

2018 is also an election year, how nice.

The completion the Relief Line procurement process during an election year actually works out nicely for us. That means we might not have to wait too long from the completion of the Environmental Assessment (TPAP) before signing contracts for its construction. Governments love making big investments just before elections.

If I had to put money down, I'd bet the Scarborough Subway and Relief Line will start construction early to mid 2018, before the next election, so the Liberals can say they have two new subway projects under construction before the next election. Also to prevent the cancelation of both projects by subsequent governments, which is important for legacy concerns. The LPO will want to be remembered as the party that got Toronto's most significant infrastructure project of a generation, the Relief Line, under construction, in addition to Scarborough Subway, Eglinton Crosstown and GO RER.

 

[pstogios]

The completion the Relief Line procurement process during an election year actually works out nicely for us. That means we might not have to wait too long from the completion of the Environmental Assessment (TPAP) before signing contracts for its construction. Governments love making big investments just before elections.

If I had to put money down, I'd bet the Scarborough Subway and Relief Line will start construction early to mid 2018, before the next election, so the Liberals can say they have two new subway projects under construction before the next election. Also to prevent the cancelation of both projects by subsequent governments, which is important for legacy concerns. The LPO will want to be remembered as the party that started Toronto's most significant infrastructure project of a generation, the Relief Line, under construction, in addition to Scarborough Subway, Eglinton Crosstown and GO RER.

With what $?

Did the provincial government just come into billions of dollars and nobody told us?

The province's resources are stretched even to make committed-to projects, let alone another huge one which the RL represents.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Another thing to remember is that the station, maybe 150m, needs to be located near the surface. Already 200m away, the tunnel the subway line can be 5 or 6m below grade, if needed.

So with TBM deep stations, these utilities need to be relocation over 200m. For shallow, they need to be relocated over 400 to 600m. Either way they may have to be relocated. I am guessing relocating these will not add up to the 100's of millions that could be saved.

You can't relocate the existing Yonge and University line tunnels, nor can you avoid going deep for the Don River either. It is questionable whether going shallow will save you 100s of millions in this instance.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

With what $?

Did the provincial government just come into billions of dollars and nobody told us?

The province's resources are stretched even to make committed-to projects, let alone another huge one which the RL represents.

There's an unexplained phenomena where governments suddenly find money nobody thought we had at election time.

But seriously, nobody here can say since we don't have access to the provincial books. But if the Liberals want it done, they'll get it done.

Keep in mind that the scheduling of the spending is an important factor. If I understand the budgeting process correctly, all of the $3.5 Billion for the Relief Line doesn't need to be included in the 2018 budget. If they're distributing the spending over 10 years, the 2018 budget might include, for example, $100 Million or less for spending Relief Line spending for that year (a nominal amount of money given the size of the annual budget), which might be just enough to secure the contracts for it's construction and begin some digging. This makes it easier for the government to achieve their goal of a balanced budget, while allowing them to tell voters that they've gotten work started on the Relief Line.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

If you can't see the advantages of connecting city to lake and improving Lakeshore Blvd., I can't help you.

and what exactly are they. If we take down the gardener how big does the lakeshore have to be. And then what's next we take down the railroad corridor because it's a barrier to the lake too. I think the main reason why most people in Toronto don'at care about getting rid of the gardener is beacusetney don't see a point of it. What exactly is ther ther to attract someone to go down to the lake. Most of what is on Queens Quay is either chain restaurants and bars or condos. Aside form Queens Quay terminal there isn't much else really

 

[Euphoria]

The business district, and in some ways the city as a whole, is shifting south, probably south-east. We can develop over the train tracks. Lakeshore Blvd. unencumbered by the Gardiner is somewhat of a blank slate. We can have the bike lanes and grand tree-lined median and boulevards, and we can build a human scale streetscape with 4-6 storey podiums, art, parkettes, whatever the city plans. Developers will contribute to the boulevard improvements. It could really have that monumental beaux-arts promenade feel and become a centre of gravity for the city. We never achieved that on University Ave.

 

[Tuscani01]

I don't understand the point of this thread. AFAIK, there are no plans for a DRL, no funding or feasibility studies going on or planned.

Even the city planner bemoans the omission of any DRL in the latest proposals http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/01/city-releases-smarttrack-ridership-projections

Is this thread just a platform for posting transit porn and wishful thinking?

Might want to scroll a few pages back to the Chief Planner's tweet saying planning for the DRL is moving full steam ahead...

You'll also need to send her an email telling her she should fire all the staff currently assigned to the DRL, since there is nothing going on according to your observations.

 

[Hopkins123]

I feel like this thread has been derailed quite a bit, so to get things back on topic:



Simple DRL Phase 1 in tune with the recent developments in the news. I extend it one kilometre over to Spadina to intercept the busy 510 Spadina streetcar. I also added back in a Parliament Stn by shifting the stop intended for Sherbourne west to Jarvis St (a walk-in transfer to the 75 bus via Moss Park); and placed a station at Queen and Carlaw to lessen the commute from Leslieville and the Beaches to the nearest subway.