[tayser]

lol..."there"? Melbourne is exquisitely served with a multiplicity of surface rail transit.

...that really only serves the peak periods well

Like what you lot are doing with creating cross-town routes, after the second Metro tunnel (east-west from Clifton Hill to Newport on that map above), we need to build an orbital route in the middle ring of 'burbs to link up all the major suburban centres. Our [heavy rail] network is unfortunately 100% radial.

 

[steveintoronto]

...that really only serves the peak periods well

Like what you lot are doing with creating cross-town routes, after the second Metro tunnel (east-west from Clifton Hill to Newport on that map above), we need to build an orbital route in the middle ring of 'burbs to link up all the major suburban centres. Our [heavy rail] network is unfortunately 100% radial.

There may be a communication misunderstanding from both our ends. "Like what you lot are doing with creating cross-town routes"...except we aren't! Lots of talk though. We have one east-west (cross-city) subway, going through trying times at this point. It is generally at capacity, and in central parts, well over capacity. Thus the need for the "relief line".

For the other readers, let me quote Wiki on the City Loop:

The City Loop (originally called the Melbourne Underground Rail Loop or MURL) is a mostly-underground, partly surface-level and partly elevated subway and rail system around the central business district of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

The loop includes the city's two largest (both above-ground) stations: Flinders Street and Southern Cross (formerly Spencer Street); and three underground stations: Flagstaff, Melbourne Central (formerly Museum) and Parliament.

Melbourne's 15 radial suburban railway lines feed into the Loop at its northwestern and southeastern corners. The underground section of the Loop follows La Trobe and Spring Streets along the northern and eastern edges of the CBD's street grid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Loop

Article is dated, but does include reference to your new 'Metro'. Toronto has nothing like this, albeit the use of the term 'Metro' is very welcome to me, as I believe the Relief Line would do well to be run as a 'Metro'...not a subway in the historical sense as done here. As you know, 'Metros' (as in the Oz and European sense) are more of mainline type of vehicle, more emu than subway, and mostly use catenary.

But I also see copying Melbourne's 'underground rail loop' for single deck emu as part of the RER. This idea is alluded to in detail here:
Union Station and GO RER: Metrolinx's Phil Verster on the Future

More on this later, as there's far more affinity being discussed than there has been previously in this string. There's massive resistance for Torontonians to think in any other terms than conventional TTC gauge (wide) subways.

 

[pman]

...that really only serves the peak periods well

Like what you lot are doing with creating cross-town routes, after the second Metro tunnel (east-west from Clifton Hill to Newport on that map above), we need to build an orbital route in the middle ring of 'burbs to link up all the major suburban centres. Our [heavy rail] network is unfortunately 100% radial.

Hey, Tayser, since you’re from Melbourne could you explain something to me? I love what Melbourne has done with its trams - dedicated lanes, dedicated sheltered platforms, interlining and next tram(s) indicators. If Toronto started today and had a sane political culture, we might get there in a hundred years or so. But why do Melbourne trams seem to move so slowly? OK I know this isn’t about DRL but on the principle of learning from better cities that manage to do something right...

 

[pman]

lol..."there"? Melbourne is exquisitely served with a multiplicity of surface rail transit.

It's like claiming the South of London (UK) is poorly served by subways. It's covered with surface tracks.

Addendum: Apologies to @pman if I'd misunderstood the intent, here's some clarification:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_Metro_Rail_Project#Relieve_Swanston_Street_tram_services

We'd be so lucky as to have such 'problems' in TO. We have to improve the "tram" lines (King) and dream about Relief.

Actually my intent was a sarcastic, bitter little comment about Toronto’s brain-dead transit politics, based on the appalling overcrowding that just happened at Yonge and Bloor. I spend some time in Melbourne and Sydney and I find their transit far superior to ours.

 

[steveintoronto]

Actually my intent was a sarcastic, bitter little comment about Toronto’s brain-dead transit politics, based on the appalling overcrowding that just happened at Yonge and Bloor. I spend some time in Melbourne and Sydney and I find their transit far superior to ours.

OK! Now I get it...

Here's more on the vehicles ordered and spec'd for Melbourne's new 'relief line' and other branches of their metro: (Very real parallels to Verster's projections for Toronto and RER, both operationally and how it's funded Union Station and GO RER: Metrolinx's Phil Verster on the Future )

The High Capacity Metro Trains are a fleet of electric multiple unit (EMU) trains on order for use by Metro Trains Melbourne on the Melbourne rail network. They are due to enter service in mid-2019 and will eventually become the primary rollingstock used in the Metro Rail Tunnel when it opens in 2026. The HCMTs will carry around 1400 passengers in 7 carriages, running on Melbourne's 1500 VDCoverhead catenary system, and will be the most advanced trains in the Metro Trains fleet when they are introduced. A consortium of investors and rail companies is constructing the trains in China and Australia via a contract with the Victorian Government, in addition to upgrade works necessary for the operation of the trains.
[...continues at length...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Capacity_Metro_Trains

 

[salsa]

Am I the only one who wasn't aware of this?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Was anyone aware of this?


View attachment 133949

That’s funny because just yesterday Tory was on TV telling people that other projects weren’t slowing down DRL planning.

Given the year-level-year increases in costs of construction, whatever money we “save” by not having dedicated staff working on this project will surely cost us more in the long term

 

[A Torontonian Now]

This is appalling.

 

[raptor]

What's more appalling is that it *has* to be done in-house?? Can't they outsource this piece of work?

 

[steveintoronto]

Am I the only one who wasn't aware of this?

Jeezuz...I'm shocked but I'm not. We need more substantiation. Seems Jenny's starting to spill the beans. This is going to get good(bad) good.

Addendum: Could this be her cue to throw her hat in the Mayoral election ring now that Dougie found another sandbox to rant in?

 

[steveintoronto]

What's more appalling is that it *has* to be done in-house?? Can't they outsource this piece of work?

Metrolinx and Verster will have to grab it entirely now. (I'm aware of ML hiring in outside teams and professionals to buttress their planning department, the word I heard was for "ML projects within Toronto". These are architects and engineers and some PR. I didn't think of the Relief Line, just other projects already in the works, but....)

 

[Amare]

If there is no viable opposition who come out to challenge Tory between now and April, Keesmaat should definitely go for it. I'd vote for her within a second because i'm getting tired of Tory's flip-flopping on various files which is just wasting us time.

First he was for the DRL, then he invents his Smarttrack plan which is wasting us time. Then he was against time-based transfer, all of a sudden he's in support. Later on he was against improvements which would help a tiny percentage of pressure off the Yonge Line, now he's all of a sudden for it. He talks about austerity, but as we all know time is money and he's just wasting more money by his consistent stalling.

 

[micheal_can]

Jeezuz...I'm shocked but I'm not. We need more substantiation. Seems Jenny's starting to spill the beans. This is going to get good(bad) good.

Addendum: Could this be her cue to throw her hat in the Mayoral election ring now that Dougie found another sandbox to rant in?

We will see in April. If he gets kicked out of that sandbox, he will be back in this sandbox.

 

[Cobra]

Keesmaat for mayor! I think this community is big enough to start a social media movement to get the buzz going, right?

 

[Hopkins123]

If there is no viable opposition who come out to challenge Tory between now and April, Keesmaat should definitely go for it. I'd vote for her within a second because i'm getting tired of Tory's flip-flopping on various files which is just wasting us time.

First he was for the DRL, then he invents his Smarttrack plan which is wasting us time. Then he was against time-based transfer, all of a sudden he's in support. Later on he was against improvements which would help a tiny percentage of pressure off the Yonge Line, now he's all of a sudden for it. He talks about austerity, but as we all know time is money and he's just wasting more money by his consistent stalling.

Yes, but arguably John Tory's positions now are superior to the ones he previously held that he "flip-flopped" from. Say what you will about SmartTrack, but it did catalyze a lot of positive progressive things for Toronto:

- Eglinton West LRT now a priority again, and to be at least 60% grade-separated
- At least 6 new GO stations in the 416
- Kept a downtown relief line discussion ongoing, not just amongst us transit nerds, but the media and general public
- Got the DRL through the EA process stage
- Got all 3 Parties Provinicially and the Federal gov't committed to funding the DRL
- Got the King Street Pilot adopted as a stop-gap measure until the DRL is built

All this within one term. To say he's done nothing is disingenuous and to throw him out now puts all of the above at risk.