All of that should be the standard for major projects downtown. Poured concrete makes for a cheap and banal public realm. It's unfortunate to see it used in some prominent developments like CityPlace and Regent Park.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Thanks CN - the use of large paving stones are pretty impressive for what's basically a residential area.

AoD
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Paving stones are pretty standard in many cities around the world. Canada and the US are the only places I've ever been where they opt for the more primitive looking concrete sidewalk.
 
isaidso said:
Paving stones are pretty standard in many cities around the world. Canada and the US are the only places I've ever been where they opt for the more primitive looking concrete sidewalk.
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Though freshly laid paving stones do look great they tend to shift over time and there's nothing worse on a wet day in London (UK) to step on a rocking one and have cold water shoot up your leg! As Toronto's first repair thought is asphalt I wonder how long they will keep looking so good and still being a decent surface to walk on. Concrete sidewalks can last 50 years, I doubt pavers will be as durable.
 
DSC said:
Though freshly laid paving stones do look great they tend to shift over time and there's nothing worse on a wet day in London (UK) to step on a rocking one and have cold water shoot up your leg! As Toronto's first repair thought is asphalt I wonder how long they will keep looking so good and still being a decent surface to walk on. Concrete sidewalks can last 50 years, I doubt pavers will be as durable.
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The English ones are laid on sand and I don't know how they'd do with that much freezing/thawing. It's actually also quite common for sidewalks there to be done in very slick asphalt, which I doubt would hold up.Another reason why I think they use paving stones is that their utilities are buried under the sidewalk so you'll often see crews lifting a few stones to gain access.
 
DSC said:
Though freshly laid paving stones do look great they tend to shift over time and there's nothing worse on a wet day in London (UK) to step on a rocking one and have cold water shoot up your leg! As Toronto's first repair thought is asphalt I wonder how long they will keep looking so good and still being a decent surface to walk on. Concrete sidewalks can last 50 years, I doubt pavers will be as durable.
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Pavers can last just as long, though they often have to be re-layed after a few decades. There are pavers from the 1970s and 1980s on sidewalks and walkways in the city. Pavers are commonly used in European countries with climates similar to ours. In Poland, they're so common that entire big box plaza parking lots are paved with concrete pavers. Even gas stations in small cities have pavers.
 
DSC said:
Though freshly laid paving stones do look great they tend to shift over time and there's nothing worse on a wet day in London (UK) to step on a rocking one and have cold water shoot up your leg! As Toronto's first repair thought is asphalt I wonder how long they will keep looking so good and still being a decent surface to walk on. Concrete sidewalks can last 50 years, I doubt pavers will be as durable.
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Helsinki is paved in granite and has lasted for many many decades looking quite good. Their climate is similar so the choice is ours. We can invest in something beautiful and durable like the Finns did, or continue with the concrete... which looks like shit imo.
 
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Torontovibe said:
Those damned Europeans, why are they so much smarter than us?
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The Canadian way never made much sense to me. I was flabbergasted when I moved here from the UK and realized the sidewalks were concrete. Then they just rip them up with jack hammers followed by a patch job? Not only does it look horrible, but it's a really stupid way of doing things.

The Finns have taken it all to a fine art. Absolutely everything that can be put underground is put underground. They never have to dig anything up. They just go down into the tunnels to fix all the electrical, plumbing, etc. And they're not tiny dark tunnels either. They're climate controlled, well lit, and you can drive your car down there. They even put public swimming pools for the public down underground.

Think PATH, but without the retail and tiled floors!!
 
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Hosers, eh? That's a self-defeating attitude and it just perpetuates a legacy of loserdom.

The Finns sound like they ought to be emulated, though. isaidso makes an excellent point about the spectacle of concrete sidwalks marred by assorted ugly patch jobs. It does seem pretty absurd. I think it stems from dull-headed adherance to systemic way of thinking and solving problems - like we're on autopilot and phoning it in rather than really addressing the issues.
 
The next mayor would gain instant popularity from addressing this problem - the close synchronization of paved surfaces, hydro-electricity, water, gas, sewage, technological and other street infrastructure. It would take some massive departmental rearranging at City Hall and a skilled intelligence. It would be a hell of a task, and probably take a full term or two, but it would really benefit the city now and in the long term. Aesthetic updates at street level, and ones that are practical such a cast or stone pavers would be a huge plus.

I think this winter has reminded us too of the terrible amount of salt on the roads, and one of the reasons that the trees along the streets here are puny things, with their roots locked up in concrete. Radiant heating under sidewalks and even roads seems unthinkable here, with our sprawl. But it would be an gigantic benefit for the city, however small the areas started would be. Northen Scandanavian countries and a few cities elsewhere have installed systems, or are trying out prototypes for this.

http://uniter.ca/view/urban-issue-4.-install-heated-sidewalks

Anyway, streamlining and unifying the currently semi-chaotic infrastructure channels at city hall would be a long-term true efficiency. Instead of just chipping jobs from departments, well on past their minimums into crippling them from doing their work, this could save money and improve the city. A mayor who could announce work on this would gain a lot of goodwill from residents, currently plagued by patch jobs, redirection and disrepair. Who knows? We might even be able to repair a fountain within a year or two.

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Lenser said:
Hosers, eh? That's a self-defeating attitude and it just perpetuates a legacy of loserdom.

The Finns sound like they ought to be emulated, though. isaidso makes an excellent point about the spectacle of concrete sidwalks marred by assorted ugly patch jobs. It does seem pretty absurd. I think it stems from dull-headed adherance to systemic way of thinking and solving problems - like we're on autopilot and phoning it in rather than really addressing the issues.
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How can anyone who has lived their entire life in this city have any other attitude? There are some small improvements here and there (Bloor St revitalization--but even that is spotty with the granite execution and utilitarian street lights, West Donlands, Front St, etc). When and why did this cheap, indifferent sentiment become so prevalent in Toronto's culture? We used to care very much about the image of the city, but now we're complacent with looking like a dump--and I'm not exaggerating--this city really does like like trash. Even the majority of our greatest pieces of architecture are in deplorable condition. I don't get it.

I've done my part asking for improvements to the public realm in my ward by trying to get murals painted on underpasses, retaining walls, etc. and it has all been a large waste of time. There is no interest in such endeavours (my councillor can't even be bothered to respond to emails, personally); at least not in these parts. Downtown at least as a culture of citizens that actually care about the way their neighbourhoods look. Suburbanites, for the most part, don't really care what goes on beyond their own driveways. It is this sort of small-minded way of viewing things that prevails in this city's politics. It's infuriating to realize the potential Toronto has to be a beautiful looking city, and so little is ever done to bring that to fruition. Has anyone on this forum ever considered running for mayor, or at least, City Council? You seem to understand the city and its history better than most, and have meticulous attention to detail. That is exactly what is needed at city hall. I don't foresee a time when Toronto will have a true visionary as our mayor. People on this board have way more ambition and imagination than any of our city councillors. Anyway, I've gone way off topic.
 
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