[Mike in TO]

The city certainly dropped the ball by not properly maintaining what should be a heritage protected structure over the years, but I really don't think it would have been an unreasonable concession to ask of Tridel, a very successful developer with very deep pockets, to contribute a significant cash infusion to refurbish the existing gorgeous school, with a modern addition. Frankly it sickens me that the city apparently didn't make the effort.

I don't see how a very good deal for the cash strapped Toronto District School Board can possibly be so "sickening".

Renovating the 85-year old school was considered cost prohibitive and the board didn't have the money available to fix the crumbling school (They have over $1 billion in a back-log of repairs on their various properties). So a former principal of the school came up with the idea of finding a development partner build a new school. A call for proposals went out and a partnership of stakeholders interviewed 10 builder/developer candidates.

Tridel was chosen as a development partner and purchased 0.7 of an acre from the school board and also funded half the $43 million construction costs of the new school. This doesn't sound like a bad deal at all for the TDSB which will gain a state-of-the-art school built to LEED Gold standards (essentially the most environmentally friendly school in the city) with Tridel managing the construction and funding half the cost of the new school and paying for their portion of the property where the condo towers are being constructed.

The school board considered the deal such a positive success storey that it has since put together a panel to explore other partnership opportunities with various other properties. The TDSB has 600 facilities with 97 of those being closed or vacant, located on lands worth $640 million.

 

[mybrainsyourmoney]

I don't see how a very good deal for the cash strapped Toronto District School Board can possibly be so "sickening"

It smells like a good old fashioned payoff to me

Take a functional building with a giant open space that the area needs and replace it with 500+ condo units, a smaller field and a new school?

Renovating the 85-year old school was considered cost prohibitive

Cost prohibitive according to who? Tridel? You're telling us that they couldn't have renovated the school and kept the precious open space for $21.5 million?

 

[Mike in TO]

Cost prohibitive according to who? Tridel? You're telling us that they couldn't have renovated the school and kept the precious open space for $21.5 million?

According to the Toronto District School Board. They made the decision to send out a request for proposals and interview ten development teams. Tridel and the plans they presented were chosen by the TDSB.

 

[UrbanAffair]

Having gone to the school 10 years ago and having seen the plans for the new school I think its a great improvement to have the new school, over a refurbished work. The basement alone would have been near impossible to reno and fix up, as it would need to be gutted, and it was such a mess in terms of layout and having small small hallways everywhere with overcrowding. The one building looks quite nice and much more efficient I believe as well.

 

[Observer Walt]

I am a person who has been very critical of the Toronto District School Board in another thread on this forum. But in this case, give credit where it is due. I think Mike has summed it up. They cut a good deal. They lose a building which has certainly very little to recommend it. It has architectural appeal, granted (from the outside only). But it was literally falling apart, and on the verge of being unsafe. A renovation would cost many millions, to bring it up to current code, perhaps even as much as the completely new building.

It's not evident to me how that would have been better than the very innovative solution that they came up with.

 

[mybrainsyourmoney]

I am a person who has been very critical of the Toronto District School Board in another thread on this forum. But in this case, give credit where it is due. I think Mike has summed it up. They cut a good deal. They lose a building which has certainly very little to recommend it. It has architectural appeal, granted (from the outside only). But it was literally falling apart, and on the verge of being unsafe. A renovation would cost many millions, to bring it up to current code, perhaps even as much as the completely new building.

It's not evident to me how that would have been better than the very innovative solution that they came up with.

Simple. The area residents would still have a desperately needed park/open space. Now they don't it and are therefore worse off.

 

[Asterix]

Simple. The area residents would still have a desperately needed park/open space. Now they don't it and are therefore worse off.

That sounds a little extreme. The previous playing field was not all that large in the first place (and being a school board property, I doubt people could just casually use it (legally) without getting some kind of permit). Is there to be NO field with the new school?

Also, looking at things from the school board's perspective, it is not necessarily their explicit mandate to provide the general community with park/open space. That is the city's job.

When the school board is really tight on cash, it is a little presumptuous to demand that they take a hit (spending millions to update an aging structure instead of getting a brand new one) so as to provide something that is some other organization's responsibility. Their first interest should be in providing the facilities to the school and the students and the greater benefit is achieved by giving them a brand new building.

(Yes, I know ultimately city/school board money all comes from the taxpayer, but they are different organizations with their own budgets.)

 

[mybrainsyourmoney]

Previously there was a school and a very large track and field area used frequently by locals to play sports, entertain children, walk the dog, and just relax in the shade.

Now there will be a new school, (50% paid for by the Board btw) a track, no field, and 2 giant condo towers.

Sorry, tell me again how the students and area residents benefit? The biggest beneficiary is without question Tridel. 2nd the Board members that probably got the payoffs. Public suffers.

(Yes, I know ultimately city/school board money all comes from the taxpayer, but they are different organizations with their own budgets.)

So when an escaped felon is fleeing a federal prison does a Toronto Police site idly by because it's the RCMP's jurisdiction?

C'mon, that argument holds no water. Ask the planners what they think about open space in the area.

 

[meiborlo]

Previously there was a school and a very large track and field area used frequently by locals to play sports, entertain children, walk the dog, and just relax in the shade.

Now there will be a new school, (50% paid for by the Board btw) a track, no field, and 2 giant condo towers.

Sorry, tell me again how the students and area residents benefit? The biggest beneficiary is without question Tridel. 2nd the Board members that probably got the payoffs. Public suffers.



So when an escaped felon is fleeing a federal prison does a Toronto Police site idly by because it's the RCMP's jurisdiction?

C'mon, that argument holds no water. Ask the planners what they think about open space in the area.

I graduated from this school in 05. Trust me, a new school is urgently needed. This building is long over do. Also, no field? what have you been looking at? the new field is regulation size where as the old field wasn't, which means that North Toronto can actually host their sporting events instead of using Northern CI's field, or Eglinton Park down the road.

http://www.tridel.com/republic/images/republic_site_plan_500.jpg

 

[Asterix]

Previously there was a school and a very large track and field area used frequently by locals to play sports, entertain children, walk the dog, and just relax in the shade.

I wouldn't qualify it as a "very large track and field area". There wasn't even room for a regulation size track. Granted it was still a useful playing area (but again, one that in theory any group would need a permit to use and I believe dogs are not permitted on school property).

Now there will be a new school, (50% paid for by the Board btw) a track, no field, and 2 giant condo towers.

Is there no field inside the track? That was where the vast majority of the space previous was located:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...439,-79.396439&spn=0.002563,0.003642&t=h&z=18

Sorry, tell me again how the students and area residents benefit? The biggest beneficiary is without question Tridel. 2nd the Board members that probably got the payoffs. Public suffers.

If you have evidence of board members being paid off, I hope that is being passed to the police. I'd hate to think a concerned citizen with that knowledge would allow such criminal behaviour to go on without reporting it to the proper authorities.

So when an escaped felon is fleeing a federal prison does a Toronto Police site idly by because it's the RCMP's jurisdiction?

That is really a weak analogy. Both police forces are paid to enforce the law (and you'd be surprised at how much jurisdiction comes into play - unless they are siting there watching a crime take place, you aren't going to get RCMP officers chasing down criminals in Toronto without going through TPS).

C'mon, that argument holds no water. Ask the planners what they think about open space in the area.

When did I ever say planners (or the city for that matter) don't want open space in the area?

But it is not the planners (or the city's) direct space. Sure, the planners can say whether or not space designated for school use gets sold to someone to build a condo, but you are missing the point that it is not the school board's mandate to fund public parks.

If the city wants the old building kept, then they need to ensure the school board has the money to update it as needed. But just because the city does not have the spare funds to do this, it doesn't mean that the school board is able to afford it.

 

[maestro]

YAWN!

Tridel will make their money however, there are plenty of lots for them to buy for a helluva lot less hassle than partnering with the TDSB. Area residents particularly student benefits greatly with a new school instead of one which would likely have been condemned in any other situation. As to the loss of greenspace, well, it was never ment to be a public park.

 

[Solaris]

mybrainsyourmoney ... what are you talking about? there is just as much (actually ... MORE !!) field space in the proposal compared with previously existing conditions ... in both cases there was/will be a field in the centre surrounded by the tracks ... how did you conclude that there will be less space after Tridel's Republic is built ??

I see that the tracks/field is being relocated/oriented 90 degrees ... but reduced in size ? I don't think so ~

Former Conditions

Future Conditions

 

[Observer Walt]

If this bogus comment about the amount of field space is the best argument against this project, I don't think we need to give it much credibiltiy at all. The diagrams posted by Solaris indicate that the field in the new proposal will clearly be an improvement over the shabby excuse for a field that exists now. Looks like a clear benefit to the school.

The Toronto District School Board has a heavy backlog of required repairs. Few of its buildings are less than 40 years old, and many are twice that. They need to get their hands on a big chunk of money.

Admittedly the Board is suffering from underfunding by the Province. But the Provincial government have their own challenges in the current economy. The School Board needs to sell off a significant number of their surplus properties. (Another issue perhaps, but closely related to this discussion.) And in addition, if they can partner up with credible people like Tridel to redevelop some properties, why not? Assuming that the due diligence has been done, and it makes sense financially, I would say, bring on some more of these deals.

 

[cdr108]

Tridel was chosen as a development partner and purchased 0.7 of an acre from the school board and also funded half the $43 million construction costs of the new school. This doesn't sound like a bad deal at all for the TDSB which will gain a state-of-the-art school built to LEED Gold standards (essentially the most environmentally friendly school in the city) with Tridel managing the construction and funding half the cost of the new school and paying for their portion of the property where the condo towers are being constructed.

How much did Tridel pay for the 0.7 acre from the TDSB?

I'm surprised that the TDBS couldn't get the full construction costs paid for, considering a large portion of the costs was really mark-ups from the various products/trades; PLUS Tridel would have the added benefit of economies of scale during the on-site construction of the school and 2 condo towers.

 

[Mike in TO]

cdr,

I had data on the portion of construction costs covered, but not on the land deal - sorry... the TDSB would be expected to cover some costs, they aren't going to get the school for free (unless there were significant additional density provisions and municipal fees waived - Tridel would have to make the deal work for them as well, some people have a false impression that there's a bottomless pit of money available from the developers - asking for another $21.5 million would have either sunk the project or required a very different project)- I'm not sure what you mean by the mark-ups - some items and labour would cost more due to the pursuit of LEED-Gold certification and yes there would be some economies of scale with the condo project, which is part of Tridel's rationale for entering into the agreement. (re: economies of scale: all HVAC systems are 100% seperated and a number of additional security measures are being implemented - despite the buildings being in a complex they really are seperate entities)

Overall from what I've heard the TDSB is very satisfied with the deal (new improved school at half price, plus the income from the land deal and a larger track and increase in community greenspace, as is Tridel and the TDSB has struck a committee to review their portfolio and look for similar opportunities (although this committee was put together prior to the drastic changes in the real estate market, so I wouldn't anticipate it to be very active in the coming months).

I'm not going to bother replying to mybrainsyourmoney as he clearly doesn't know the area, school or anything about the project and is further suggesting payoffs which is beyond ridiculous.