AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I am curious as to the original and current legal arrangement between the hotel and Rogers Centre - it must be some kind of long-term lease.
AoD
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I am curious as to the original and current legal arrangement between the hotel and Rogers Centre - it must be some kind of long-term lease.
AoD
Translude15
Frank the Tank
For those wondering about the hotel and how its removal may compromise the structural integrity of the RC:
The Citrus Bowl during renovations in 2014.
The Citrus Bowl during renovations in 2014.
NorthYorkEd
Active Member
You ain't kiddin'.
We went to one of the sold-out Blue Jay games last month and got stuck in the slow plodding funeral march across this bridge when the crowd let out. It was unbearable. Never have I been in such a crunch of people where there wasn't a handy side-exit out of the mix. We could only move forward, jam-packed and shuffling like zombies.
At least I came out of it with a new appreciation for the suffering of feedlot cattle.
narduch
Senior Member
New Jays President says that grass in not a priority:
http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2015/12/17/turf-wars-heating-up-with-blue-jays-griffin.html
I had a feeling this would eventually happen.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2015/12/17/turf-wars-heating-up-with-blue-jays-griffin.html
I had a feeling this would eventually happen.
Amare
Senior Member
Shapiro is starting to bug me...A LOT.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
I'm all for natural grass. That said for the sake of argument the Star article might have some holes in it.
First, didn't a recent study confirm that there is no difference in injury between soccer players playing on artificial versus natural turf? This study of course was not for baseball and not for elite male players.
Second, if elite players are not choosing to play when they visit Toronto, if that is true, then isn't that an argument against replacing the turf? I'll take the win over watching the star.
First, didn't a recent study confirm that there is no difference in injury between soccer players playing on artificial versus natural turf? This study of course was not for baseball and not for elite male players.
Second, if elite players are not choosing to play when they visit Toronto, if that is true, then isn't that an argument against replacing the turf? I'll take the win over watching the star.
T.E.C.II
Active Member
Shapiro seems to be going out of his way to make himself disliked by fans.
Regarding fans not wanting to play when they visit, I don't know how true that is. But if it is, these same players probably wouldn't want to sign here either. And that's a problem. Most of the stars that have played with the Blue Jays recently were brought through trade. I wouldn't be too optimistic about this team in another season or two, and Rogers is kidding themselves if they think fan loyalty is so great that these big crowds are going to keep showing up when the team starts to lose, which they inevitably will. At which point the only draw would be to see the new field.
Also, Rogers more or less promised real grass would be installed by 2018. I'd understand if it is just not feasible, but to bluntly put the idea to the side makes me think Shapiro is on a very different wavelength that the fans. Since being hired, he has lost almost all of the goodwill that was built up over the season.
Regarding fans not wanting to play when they visit, I don't know how true that is. But if it is, these same players probably wouldn't want to sign here either. And that's a problem. Most of the stars that have played with the Blue Jays recently were brought through trade. I wouldn't be too optimistic about this team in another season or two, and Rogers is kidding themselves if they think fan loyalty is so great that these big crowds are going to keep showing up when the team starts to lose, which they inevitably will. At which point the only draw would be to see the new field.
Also, Rogers more or less promised real grass would be installed by 2018. I'd understand if it is just not feasible, but to bluntly put the idea to the side makes me think Shapiro is on a very different wavelength that the fans. Since being hired, he has lost almost all of the goodwill that was built up over the season.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
AA is a much better general manager.
It is sad for him to go.
A natural grass field would not magically make the Jays World Series contenders.
It is sad for him to go.
A natural grass field would not magically make the Jays World Series contenders.
ChesterCopperpot
Senior Member
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-planning-to-install-dirt-infield-for-2016/
Dirt infield will be happening this year
Dirt infield will be happening this year
Amare
Senior Member
I see it as a "compromise" since Shapiro knows that he wont be installing a grass playing surface at the dome. A crook is a crook, no matter how one spells it out.
ChesterCopperpot
Senior Member
Except for the fact they've been talking about it since May - but don't let that get in the way of you blaming Shapiro
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-mulling-installation-of-dirt-infield/
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-mulling-installation-of-dirt-infield/
Amare
Senior Member
Not at all, i'm sure in Shapiro's mind it was a perfect opportunity to save face in the midst of some bad PR revolving the grass dilemma.
T.E.C.II
Active Member
I don't think anyone is suggesting that, just that a natural grass field would help attract free agents who are maybe a bit reluctant to play on turf while also providing a better playing surface for the team. As well as attracting fans who have maybe stayed away from attending games at the stadium. I could see a big spike in attendance the year they install grass, which, if the team fails to do anything significant in the next few years, would probably be welcome.
gabe
Senior Member
We should be blaming Rogers not Shapiro. They are the ones who hired him. He's mediocre at best. Just check his record with Cleveland. Not very impressive. He was probably Rogers 5th or 6th choice. Rogers made their minds up in 2014 they wanted Beaston/AA out after 2015. Then of course, the Blue Jays had one of their best seasons in over 20 years.... Doh!!!
asdda
New Member
Grass was never going to happen. It is such a colossal undertaking and I just don't see how you can justify the cost. The minute Beeston started talking about 200-400 million dollars for renovations you should have known it was BS. Who would spend that much money to renovate such an outdated stadium design. It is not like you can renovate the Skydome into not being a dome which is the biggest problem with it. If you are going to spend that much money you may as well build a new stadium.
The idea that grass would make it easier to sign free agents is also ridiculous. The main problem with the Blue Jays is that they are in Canada. They will always be disadvantaged compared to the American teams in luring free agents. The Raptors have the same problem.
Also I don't think it was because of the lack of grass that free agents ignored Toronto, I think 20 years of mediocrity is a much bigger reason.
Shapiro getting smeared by the Toronto media is unfortunate. He is the best President they have had in decades albeit that it doesn't take much to be better then Beeston and Godfrey. I can't really judge Beeston on his first go-around. But the last 6 years have been terrible under him. The Jays still haven't built a new spring training facility which should have been done years ago, the players complaining about how outdated some of the equipment in the clubhouse is, the Jays still don't have dynamic ticket pricing which is costing them a ton of money ever year, the whole Santana contract fiasco.
AA and Beeston left this team in shambles with an aged core and a mediocre farm system. It annoys me that Shapiro is the one getting dragged through the mud by the old boys club of the media and bandwagon Jays fans.
He left the Indians with a great core and a good farm system. Hell if the Blue Jays could do a wholesale trade with the Indians I would do it in a heartbeat. A core of Kluber, Salazar, Carrasco, Bratley, Kipnis, Santana and Gomes with our 140 million dollar budget would be scary. We would be good for the rest of the decade.
Instead because of AAs moves and impatience we got 1 more year left to win a World Series with our core and will have to do a giant rebuild afterwards.
Mediocre at best? The Indians are a bottom 5 payroll team. What kind of sustained success do you expect?
The only GMs that can work under such parameters are Beene and Friedman and they are the two best in baseball and pretty big outliers. Most other low payroll teams have to continually go through cycles of being terrible and good and basically get lucky.
Shapiro is definetely one of the best people Rogers could have gotten. Friedman is getting paid a ton of money with the Dodgers, Beene is never leaving Oakland, Epstein is getting paid a ton of money with the Cubs and Dombrowski just joined the Red Sox.
Those are the only executives I would put ahead of Shapiro.
I'm all for criticizing Rogers but they actually lucked out in hiring Shapiro considering the other candidates that were rumoured were guys like Williams and Duquette.
The idea that grass would make it easier to sign free agents is also ridiculous. The main problem with the Blue Jays is that they are in Canada. They will always be disadvantaged compared to the American teams in luring free agents. The Raptors have the same problem.
Also I don't think it was because of the lack of grass that free agents ignored Toronto, I think 20 years of mediocrity is a much bigger reason.
Shapiro getting smeared by the Toronto media is unfortunate. He is the best President they have had in decades albeit that it doesn't take much to be better then Beeston and Godfrey. I can't really judge Beeston on his first go-around. But the last 6 years have been terrible under him. The Jays still haven't built a new spring training facility which should have been done years ago, the players complaining about how outdated some of the equipment in the clubhouse is, the Jays still don't have dynamic ticket pricing which is costing them a ton of money ever year, the whole Santana contract fiasco.
AA and Beeston left this team in shambles with an aged core and a mediocre farm system. It annoys me that Shapiro is the one getting dragged through the mud by the old boys club of the media and bandwagon Jays fans.
He left the Indians with a great core and a good farm system. Hell if the Blue Jays could do a wholesale trade with the Indians I would do it in a heartbeat. A core of Kluber, Salazar, Carrasco, Bratley, Kipnis, Santana and Gomes with our 140 million dollar budget would be scary. We would be good for the rest of the decade.
Instead because of AAs moves and impatience we got 1 more year left to win a World Series with our core and will have to do a giant rebuild afterwards.
Mediocre at best? The Indians are a bottom 5 payroll team. What kind of sustained success do you expect?
The only GMs that can work under such parameters are Beene and Friedman and they are the two best in baseball and pretty big outliers. Most other low payroll teams have to continually go through cycles of being terrible and good and basically get lucky.
Shapiro is definetely one of the best people Rogers could have gotten. Friedman is getting paid a ton of money with the Dodgers, Beene is never leaving Oakland, Epstein is getting paid a ton of money with the Cubs and Dombrowski just joined the Red Sox.
Those are the only executives I would put ahead of Shapiro.
I'm all for criticizing Rogers but they actually lucked out in hiring Shapiro considering the other candidates that were rumoured were guys like Williams and Duquette.