[billonlogan]

I'll accept that such as tax is needed only AFTER council rolls back their recent self-voted wage increase, and the city employee wage costs are rolled back to match inflation. Otherwise we're being suckered here by a city that just voluntarily increased their labour costs, and now says that they can't afford the costs, so want the city's taxpayers to cover the difference. Where is the leadership at city hall that stands up for taxpayers?

The only leadership you see at city hall is union leadership and they seem to get the job done with pay increases, benefits and influence in decision making.

 

[taal]

This is bull,

York region and Peel already have their own taxes that you pay on top of your property bill - it's minor yes. Moreover, as clearly stated many times, the property tax in those regions is a lot higher - actually - in places like Brampton it's waaayyy more.

Not that I agree with the tax - but the argument that people will leave the city, if that's the case there simply being driven out by the media who covers everything "bad" in Toronto.

Just take today, on 680 news / the star / breakfast television (this is the worst) - going on about how York region is not raising fares but we are. When York region raised fares the last 2 or so years almost nothing was heard.

 

[EnviroTO]

A sales tax levied solely in Toronto is a ridiculous idea as it would hurt businesses close to the border. If it was a 1% municipal sales tax levied across the province to claw back half the GST reduction then it could make sense although I think GST/HST should only be levied on what currently is PST taxable since PST isn't charged on basic necessities and education materials such as books. City council needs to forget about all the other means to get money from people and focus on property taxes. How they think that people would have a harder time dealing with larger property tax increases versus a whole gamut of new taxes and levies is beyond me. Personally I would prefer fewer types of taxes and levies but in larger values than I would prefer a whole bunch of taxes and levies in smaller values. Unfortunately it seems that while governments are lowering and simplifying business taxation, things are worsening for personal taxes which despite income tax and sales tax becoming lower in value have far more taxes types and levies and filings are getting more and more complex.

 

[Glen]

This is bull,

York region and Peel already have their own taxes that you pay on top of your property bill - it's minor yes. Moreover, as clearly stated many times, the property tax in those regions is a lot higher - actually - in places like Brampton it's waaayyy more.

Not that I agree with the tax - but the argument that people will leave the city, if that's the case there simply being driven out by the media who covers everything "bad" in Toronto.

Well said.

 

[UserNameToronto]

Of course, nobody can imagine crowds of people leaving the city, but we have to consider the impact in long term perspective - people and businesses have lot of choices in the global world and higher taxes are no incentive at all

Other global cities (SF/Chicago/NYC) levy tax. Toronto does not.

 

[Glen]

Of course, nobody can imagine crowds of people leaving the city, but we have to consider the impact in long term perspective - people and businesses have lot of choices in the global world and higher taxes are no incentive at all
i believe if you compare the positives and negatives in a long term, the negatives can (maybe just slightly) prevail...

I was addressing the point that while Toronto residents may huff and puff about high taxes and threaten to leave the city, the facts clearly show that they would be foolish. Toronto residents pay a lot less tax. The only place of tax refuge they could find in Ontario would be Milton. Everywhere else pays more. Much, much more if one takes into account taxes as a % municipal spending.

The media hardly ever states this.

 

[taal]

I was addressing the point that while Toronto residents may huff and puff about high taxes and threaten to leave the city, the facts clearly show that they would be foolish. Toronto residents pay a lot less tax. The only place of tax refuge they could find in Ontario would be Milton. Everywhere else pays more. Much, much more if one takes into account taxes as a % municipal spending.

The media hardly ever states this.

Just on this issue ... I'm not claiming it's a good thing - it's not ...

I guess at some point in time there was some merit in keeping out taxes lower in an attempt to to keep residents ... but is that really why it started ?

Elect me mayor and I'll raise your property tax - and lower business tax! we'll be able to attract more businesses in the long run

Guess that wouldn't go over to well in any platform - given the media and the general ignorance out there ... pfft

 

[kEiThZ]

And that's the real tragedy here. The public votes. Businesses don't. The city needs to attract investment but the voters could care less about that as long as their taxes are low. Hence, all this effort to try and find a way to wring more out of Torontonians without actually raising their property taxes.

 

[nfitz]

And that's the real tragedy here. The public votes. Businesses don't. The city needs to attract investment but the voters could care less about that as long as their taxes are low. Hence, all this effort to try and find a way to wring more out of Torontonians without actually raising their property taxes.

How then do you explain that the city is already in the process of reducing business property taxes and increasing residential property taxes?

 

[taal]

How then do you explain that the city is already in the process of reducing business property taxes and increasing residential property taxes?

Too slow .........

Moreover, watch, it'll be the first thing scrapped.

And we're so deep in the hole now they have no choice don't chalk this up to the city. Not that I'm complaining, it's good, but again, not enough fast enough.

 

[EnviroTO]

we have to consider the impact in long term perspective - people and businesses have lot of choices in the global world and higher taxes are no incentive at all
i believe if you compare the positives and negatives in a long term, the negatives can (maybe just slightly) prevail...

Higher taxes are no incentive at all?? Negatives can prevail?? Taxes pay for services and taxes in Toronto for business aren't much different from other US jurisdictions and the other costs of doing business in Toronto are much lower than most major cities. Tax is only one factor in determining where a business locates. Pension and employee benefit costs are lower here. Electricity prices are lower here than in most places. Lowering taxes creates cuts to service which are "negatives". Toronto is lowering the business property tax rate in comparison to the residential rate. People go where jobs are. Toronto's residential rate is lower than most of its neighbours.

 

[Admiral Beez]

And do what? Leave the city en mass? Rebel?
Quality of life is way too good here for people to rebel against any proposed tax.

That's my point I suppose. Is the consensus that Torontonians will accept infinite tax increases, user fees, public servant payroll increases, and now road tolls without complaint or reaction?

 

[BobBob]

I don't think we could afford infinite tax increases. Small increases, on the other hand, to pay for things deemed important... perhaps.

 

[kEiThZ]

Nobody knows what the tipping point is. But it'll come sooner than people think. Inner suburbanites who have the bulk of votes aren't seeing values from these fees and taxes. Sooner rather than later they'll rebel and cast out as many leftist municipal politicians as they can. The provincial Liberals don't want to be collateral in such a fight, that's why they said no to the TST.

 

[Glen]

Higher taxes are no incentive at all?? Negatives can prevail?? Taxes pay for services and taxes in Toronto for business aren't much different from other US jurisdictions and the other costs of doing business in Toronto are much lower than most major cities. Tax is only one factor in determining where a business locates. Pension and employee benefit costs are lower here. Electricity prices are lower here than in most places. Lowering taxes creates cuts to service which are "negatives". Toronto is lowering the business property tax rate in comparison to the residential rate. People go where jobs are. Toronto's residential rate is lower than most of its neighbours.

Your points seem to be a copy of the Toronto staff ones made in the ETBC report. Like them you fail to look at the total burden and just what the taxes are paying for. Toronto is not tax competitive, period. From the chair of the Mayors Independent Fiscal Review Panel, "Toronto has the highest-taxed offices in the world. It is the lowest-taxed residential city in the country. That isn’t right. Why is it that way? Because for years councillors have been afraid to do the right thing, at the expense of business" . As the former head of CBRE, I am quite certain he is knowledgeable on the issue.

Even the Mayor knows it...

http://www.toronto.ca/prosperity/pdf/mecac-year-one.pdf