[Bjays92]

Thread for the metz has been created

The Metz | ?m | 38s | Auburn | Turner Fleischer

Post threads for any others you know of. This is fascinating, and I'm sure other members feel the same. https://www.gspgroup.ca/projects/the-metz/ ^ Construction has begun for Schneider's redevelopment I believe...

urbantoronto.ca

I also plan on doing semi regular photo updates for these threads once I have all the main ones done

 

[Matt.R.WR]

So much for wanting to get started "immediately" on this project maybe I'm missing some details, but the old Rona is empty and has been for a while (even since it was used as a vax site) and that's probably close to 20% of the whole SmartCentres property. Pretty sure the Bed Bath & Beyond/ Old Navy row is pretty empty, with the Maurice's, Reitman's, GUESS rows also fairly vacant. Google Maps shows the Dollarama as along Pinebush, rather than next to the old Chuck E Cheese unit, which would mean that whole building is also empty.

Splitting the difference, let's say the Old Navy/ BB&B strip is 100% empty, and Maurice's, Reitman's, GUESS is too occupied to justify eviction, that leaves almost 19 acres as unused TODAY. On a 73 acre site... that's 25%+. That feels significant to me. And as a youngin, I'd really love to see a major influx of smaller units to my city. Paying $500K for a 1-bedroom condo is kinda lame. At least this site would be pretty walkable and consistently dense, even if I'm still paying 400-500K for a 1-bedroom in a very car-dependent city.

 

[Bjays92]

So much for wanting to get started "immediately" on this project maybe I'm missing some details, but the old Rona is empty and has been for a while (even since it was used as a vax site) and that's probably close to 20% of the whole SmartCentres property. Pretty sure the Bed Bath & Beyond/ Old Navy row is pretty empty, with the Maurice's, Reitman's, GUESS rows also fairly vacant. Google Maps shows the Dollarama as along Pinebush, rather than next to the old Chuck E Cheese unit, which would mean that whole building is also empty.

Splitting the difference, let's say the Old Navy/ BB&B strip is 100% empty, and Maurice's, Reitman's, GUESS is too occupied to justify eviction, that leaves almost 19 acres as unused TODAY. On a 73 acre site... that's 25%+. That feels significant to me. And as a youngin, I'd really love to see a major influx of smaller units to my city. Paying $500K for a 1-bedroom condo is kinda lame. At least this site would be pretty walkable and consistently dense, even if I'm still paying 400-500K for a 1-bedroom in a very car-dependent city.
View attachment 509748

Yup I drive by here regularly and no signs of life. It’s quite disappointing.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

Anyone think this redevelopment would get a jump start when an ION phase II gets the green light?

I’ve travelled through here plenty; I know the area but I don’t know the demographics or travel patterns so I couldn’t assume the above.

 

[ZEBuilder]

Anyone think this redevelopment would get a jump start when an ION phase II gets the green light?

I’ve travelled through here plenty; I know the area but I don’t know the demographics or travel patterns so I couldn’t assume the above.

The way Jan Liggett (Cambridge Mayor) keeps complaining about the phase 2 LRT it isn't going to get the green light anytime soon if she has any say in it, plus with a 4.5 billion price tag it isn't going to be easy to convince anyone, the region certainly doesn't want to pay 1/3 of the cost like they did with phase 1. Cambridge does have a bunch of developments in the pipeline but theres very little action on the vast majority of them, it doesn't help that council constantly fights developments immediately adjacent to the future line.

 

[Matt.R.WR]

Anyone think this redevelopment would get a jump start when an ION phase II gets the green light?

I’ve travelled through here plenty; I know the area but I don’t know the demographics or travel patterns so I couldn’t assume the above.

I think GO rail service to Cambridge (via Guelph to Hespeler, or via Milton to Galt... or both would be unimaginably awesome) would more than the ION. I feel like the proximity to the 401 would attract more Toronto-bound commuter demographic rather than an inter-city, intra-region focused demographic. But if both (GO & ION) were given the green light and started construction almost immediately, I think we'd see solid plans for SmartCentres emerge almost instantly. What I'd love to see is more rapid transit (ideally, rail) in Cambridge... something like an LRT line running from Pinebush Station, down Pinebush to Townline, down Townline and Canamera, terminating at the Canamera Station included in Stage 2.

 

[Sunnyside]

I think GO rail service to Cambridge (via Guelph to Hespeler, or via Milton to Galt... or both would be unimaginably awesome) would more than the ION. I feel like the proximity to the 401 would attract more Toronto-bound commuter demographic rather than an inter-city, intra-region focused demographic. But if both (GO & ION) were given the green light and started construction almost immediately, I think we'd see solid plans for SmartCentres emerge almost instantly. What I'd love to see is more rapid transit (ideally, rail) in Cambridge... something like an LRT line running from Pinebush Station, down Pinebush to Townline, down Townline and Canamera, terminating at the Canamera Station included in Stage 2.

GO to Cambridge would be the prudent choice in terms of creating something more materially useful to residents compared to the iON extension, which as it is won't be any faster than the current bus. Unfortunately, the money for either doesn't seem to exist, and WR seems intent on building their expensive extension for the purposes of development alone, not improving the transit network/ experience. I think this project is going to be on ice until rails go in somewhere, not vice-versa.

 

[Matt.R.WR]

GO to Cambridge would be the prudent choice in terms of creating something more materially useful to residents compared to the iON extension, which as it is won't be any faster than the current bus. Unfortunately, the money for either doesn't seem to exist, and WR seems intent on building their expensive extension for the purposes of development alone, not improving the transit network/ experience. I think this project is going to be on ice until rails go in somewhere, not vice-versa.

Let's just keep delaying everything and then wonder why it's so expensive.

 

[ZEBuilder]

I think GO rail service to Cambridge (via Guelph to Hespeler, or via Milton to Galt... or both would be unimaginably awesome) would more than the ION. I feel like the proximity to the 401 would attract more Toronto-bound commuter demographic rather than an inter-city, intra-region focused demographic. But if both (GO & ION) were given the green light and started construction almost immediately, I think we'd see solid plans for SmartCentres emerge almost instantly. What I'd love to see is more rapid transit (ideally, rail) in Cambridge... something like an LRT line running from Pinebush Station, down Pinebush to Townline, down Townline and Canamera, terminating at the Canamera Station included in Stage 2.

You may want more rapid transit but Cambridge council is so adamantly against it that it's really quite hilarious. The mayor already wants to have the LRT end in the middle of suburbia (Dundas around Franklin) instead of down into Galt where it's already more supportive towards transit.

There is absolutely no way the region would build a line on Pinebush/Townline/Can-Amera within phase 2, maybe a phase years into the future but most definitely not phase 2. The region would not see a route like that justified anytime in the near future, the most likely line after phase 2 is complete is another line in Kitchener along Ottawa St that connects to the airport and Breslau.

 

[Bjays92]

You may want more rapid transit but Cambridge council is so adamantly against it that it's really quite hilarious. The mayor already wants to have the LRT end in the middle of suburbia (Dundas around Franklin) instead of down into Galt where it's already more supportive towards transit.

There is absolutely no way the region would build a line on Pinebush/Townline/Can-Amera within phase 2, maybe a phase years into the future but most definitely not phase 2. The region would not see a route like that justified anytime in the near future, the most likely line after phase 2 is complete is another line in Kitchener along Ottawa St that connects to the airport and Breslau.

If we’re being realistic here, phase 2 is dead in the water.

It will never happen and it’s a damn shame. It’s also a shame that the route and speed of transportation was never the priority of either phase.

I highly doubt we’ll ever see anything along Ottawa. Even the Ottawa street bridge over the Grand is still a long ways off. With the fairway road bridge being more than sufficient for most traffic there’s no real urgency to the Ottawa st extension.

Victoria is flagged as a future rapid transit corridor and massively in need of revitalization. Any line to the airport would run down Victoria and cut across. I also believe there was/is potentially a plan for a spur connection from the existing rail line to the airport.

 

[ZEBuilder]

If we’re being realistic here, phase 2 is dead in the water.

It will never happen and it’s a damn shame. It’s also a shame that the route and speed of transportation was never the priority of either phase.

I highly doubt we’ll ever see anything along Ottawa. Even the Ottawa street bridge over the Grand is still a long ways off. With the fairway road bridge being more than sufficient for most traffic there’s no real urgency to the Ottawa st extension.

Victoria is flagged as a future rapid transit corridor and massively in need of revitalization. Any line to the airport would run down Victoria and cut across. I also believe there was/is potentially a plan for a spur connection from the existing rail line to the airport.

Based on the most recent regional official plan (ROPA 6) the current intensification corridors within the region are actually the current phase 1 and phase 2 LRT corridors as well as Ottawa St from the Sunrise Center to central Breslau. From this it looks as if Ottawa is going to be the next phase of an LRT if any future phase gets built not Victoria, Victoria is more complicated because it is currently owned by the MTO and will be until the new highway 7 gets built (if that ever happens) so the region is not currently planning on building a LRT on Victoria.

Here is the map that shows these corridors.

 

[Bjays92]

Based on the most recent regional official plan (ROPA 6) the current intensification corridors within the region are actually the current phase 1 and phase 2 LRT corridors as well as Ottawa St from the Sunrise Center to central Breslau. From this it looks as if Ottawa is going to be the next phase of an LRT if any future phase gets built not Victoria, Victoria is more complicated because it is currently owned by the MTO and will be until the new highway 7 gets built (if that ever happens) so the region is not currently planning on building a LRT on Victoria.

Here is the map that shows these corridors.
View attachment 510980

Interesting. Thx for this. That’s a significant adjustment from the previous plan, I was unaware they had shifted the plan to Ottawa street.

I think Victoria St would still be better but one perk of this I suppose is direct transit access to the Aud.

 

[Matt.R.WR]

You may want more rapid transit but Cambridge council is so adamantly against it that it's really quite hilarious. The mayor already wants to have the LRT end in the middle of suburbia (Dundas around Franklin) instead of down into Galt where it's already more supportive towards transit.

There is absolutely no way the region would build a line on Pinebush/Townline/Can-Amera within phase 2, maybe a phase years into the future but most definitely not phase 2. The region would not see a route like that justified anytime in the near future, the most likely line after phase 2 is complete is another line in Kitchener along Ottawa St that connects to the airport and Breslau.

I didn't mean as part of phase 2, just generally. Also don't disagree with a line going down to the Franklin/ Dundas area, I think it'd be a great area for intensification - but it should not be where phase 2 goes, keep that downtown. I'm probably a bit too gung ho about LRT, but it would be such a catalyst for the city. With a couple additional lines, you could serve most of the city and open up and insane amount of land for future intensification and turn Cambridge into an actual city AND leave the cores intact. But I feel like that's too reasonable of a move for our current administration so it probably won't happen.

*sigh*

 

[reinventingthewheel]

I think a couple more years of high ridership and big developments popping up along the ION corridor should hopefully be enough proof to any administration that an expansion is worthwhile.

As oppose to the Cambridge extension, it would probably be cheaper to add a new N/S route through Kitchener, and more worthwhile with the proximity to GO and YKF. However, I wonder how much this would be disputed by Cambridge locals and councillors.

 

[Matt.R.WR]

I think a couple more years of high ridership and big developments popping up along the ION corridor should hopefully be enough proof to any administration that an expansion is worthwhile.

As oppose to the Cambridge extension, it would probably be cheaper to add a new N/S route through Kitchener, and more worthwhile with the proximity to GO and YKF. However, I wonder how much this would be disputed by Cambridge locals and councillors.

That's the problem though, the current mayor hates big developments. The more there are along the existing ion, the more she'll be opposed to it lol

Having seen the insane amount of people taking the ion bus directly after getting off the ion, I think that and the development we've already seen along the line should be enough to justify the expansion, but it seems like we'll be forced to wait until at least 2032.

As a Cambridge local, I would go ballistic if a new line in Kitchener or Waterloo were proposed before Stage 2 got shovels in the ground. Not because I don't want it (again, I'm insanely pro-LRT), but because we haven't seen any of the benefits that we've already paid into - it'd just be unfair. Would probably lead more people to be in favour of Cambridge separating from the Region - a move that would screw Cambridge more than people here already think we get screwed by being part of the Region.