nfitz said:
Thanks!
I guess there will be some good cash from York students who take the current York buses, who will now have to change at Highway 407 station or Vaughan Megaplex Centre to get to York U, instead of their direct bus.
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I would think that the current bus routes would remain as is to prevent having students need to take the subway, or there might be an uproar, and rightly so.
 
Transportfan said:
I would think that the current bus routes would remain as is to prevent having students need to take the subway, or there might be an uproar, and rightly so.
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Nope. York U has declared that they are going to ban buses from campus once the subway opens (and for some reason, people seem to be OK with that). GO buses will only serve Hwy 407 station, and York buses will has terminals at Steeles West and Hwy 407.
 
CDL.TO said:
Nope. York U has declared that they are going to ban buses from campus once the subway opens (and for some reason, people seem to be OK with that). GO buses will only serve Hwy 407 station, and York buses will has terminals at Steeles West and Hwy 407.
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Reading between the lines suggest fare integration.
 
CDL.TO said:
Nope. York U has declared that they are going to ban buses from campus once the subway opens (and for some reason, people seem to be OK with that). GO buses will only serve Hwy 407 station, and York buses will has terminals at Steeles West and Hwy 407.
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York University seems to have its own set of delusions much as Vaughan does with the station naming conflict.
 
nfitz said:
Wow ... no financial contribution. I assume TTC and/or City of Toronto have approved similar terms somewhere.

I guess there will be some good cash from York students who take the current York buses, who will now have to change at Highway 407 station or Vaughan Megaplex Centre to get to York U, instead of their direct bus ... but will it make up for all those who are already paying a TTC fare to board at Downsview or Finch?
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The Toronto report is at www.ttc.ca/postings/gso-comrpt/documents/report/f3247/_conv.htm. It basically says that charging York U students a double fare won't work because students are cheap. So there was a agreement in principle on a single fare to York U, but no agreement on revenue sharing.

Does anybody know if that's changed since?
 
nfitz said:
Thanks!

Wow ... no financial contribution. I assume TTC and/or City of Toronto have approved similar terms somewhere. I had no idea that Toronto taxpayers were going to have to fund operation of this. I'd think at least Region of York would have to pick up the 50-cents or so subsidy per rider that the City pays!
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Unbelievable...

Even Montreal didn't got screwed like that. Not only did they made sure Laval and Longueuil paid part of the operational cost but they made the whole greater area pay their share. (82 municipalities)

They came up with the concept that the Metro was not only a Montreal infrastructure but a Metropolitan Infrastructure. Since people from all those municipalities are being dumped on the nearest subway station by their cities/towns bus service, Montreal said that those same towns had to pay their share as well since it enabled those same towns/cities to grow by advertising being close to Montreal or a subway station. The truth is that Montreal suburbs population have drastically increase while Montreal is losing young families to the suburbs.

Only fair they pay their share.
 
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Paleo said:
York University seems to have its own set of delusions much as Vaughan does with the station naming conflict.
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Maybe, but to transform the current commons area into a pedestrianized space will be a huge improvement for the campus.
 
Transportfan said:
I read it earlier in this thread I believe and at the Transit Toronto site.
To simplify fare collection, Spadina stations north of Steeles Avenue would be considered within the TTC fare zone, with no transfers offered or accepted from connecting York Region Transit routes. The TTC would be entitled to all fare revenue from Vaughan Metropolitan Centre and Highway 407 stations, and be responsible for the stations upkeep. Service would likely split at Steeles West, with every other train turning back there, and the remainder continuing into Vaughan.
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5114.shtml
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. I cannot believe that north of Steeles will be considered part of the TTC fare structure. i cannot wait till distance based fares come in and I hope soon.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Nfitz was asking for a source on the fare agreement. This is from York Region's April 2007 council minutes:

73 Subway Extension to Vaughan Corporate Centre - Operating Agreement Update

It was moved by Regional Councillor Ferri, seconded by Regional Councillor Frustaglio, that Council adopt the recommendations contained in the confidential report of the Rapid Transit Public/Private Partnership Steering Committee (April 12, 2007) as follows:

1. Council approve in principle an arrangement for operation of the Spadina Subway Extension in York Region with the TTC, with the following general provisions:

a) The TTC would be the sole owner and operator of the subway system within York
Region;
b) York Region would pay the capital cost for construction of the subway within York Region as per the cost sharing agreement approved by Council on September 21, 2006;
c) The TTC would assume all operating risk and financial responsibility, including fare revenue and operating costs;
d) A single TTC fare would be charged to customers of the Spadina Subway extension within York Region;
e) York Region would make no financial contribution to ongoing operations;
f) The cost of capital rehabilitation and replacement for the subway system within York Region would be the responsibility of the TTC and the City of Toronto;
g) York Region would be saved harmless from any future capital or operating costs or related liabilities;
h) The TTC would operate the subway line within York Region with “minimum service levels” for service frequency, hours of operation and station cleanliness consistent with average service levels on the TTC subway;
i) York Region would be responsible for bus terminal operations and related operating costs at subway stations within York Region; and
j) York Region would own the lands on which Commuter parking lots were situated.
2. The approval in principle noted in Recommendation 1 be subject to the following conditions:

a) York Region explore options with Toronto to share credit for ridership for purposes of the gas tax or any performance-based transit subsidy.
b) In the event of a change in subway system ownership, York Region would be saved harmless from any future operating charge or be recognized for its original capital investment;
c) York Region would retain control of bus terminals;
d) Staff report back with further analysis and options for commuter parking;
e) York Region would retain all development/air rights at subway stations and throughout the subway corridor in York Region; and
f) In the event of a change in TTC’s fare structure (currently a single fare for the entire subway system), transit riders within York Region would not bear undue hardship.
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I can't believe all these conditions were agreed to especially the last 2 (e and f). I especially cannot believe f - undue hardship. This is absolutely crazy.
 
Palma said:
I can't believe all these conditions were agreed to especially the last 2 (e and f). I especially cannot believe f - undue hardship. This is absolutely crazy.
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Why? 2e makes sense considering the region paid for the construction so the infrastructure should be theirs. 2f simply states that the TTC couldn't choose to handle fares within York Region differently than how it handles fares in other locations which doesn't rule out distance based fares as long as stations within the city limits are also paying distance based fares.
 
They paid 1/3 and nothing for operation. Makes no sense like that whole extension and that station to be called highway 407. How can one not laugh,
 
Palma said:
They paid 1/3 and nothing for operation. Makes no sense like that whole extension and that station to be called highway 407. How can one not laugh,
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What does any of that have to do with 2e and 2f? They paid for the building of the line within York region and therefore it makes sense that the part they built is theirs. If the TTC has agreed to the operational arrangement then they believe that it will pay for itself which is quite possible considering that there will be many buses that the TTC doesn't need to pay anything for dropping off passengers at the station. If every subway rider today found their own way to the subway then paid the fare for the subway the TTC would run a profit.
 
EnviroTO said:
What does any of that have to do with 2e and 2f? They paid for the building of the line within York region and therefore it makes sense that the part they built is theirs. If the TTC has agreed to the operational arrangement then they believe that it will pay for itself which is quite possible considering that there will be many buses that the TTC doesn't need to pay anything for dropping off passengers at the station. If every subway rider today found their own way to the subway then paid the fare for the subway the TTC would run a profit.
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That would be a no. The TTC put out a report a while back that mumbled about requesting a special subsidy from the province to cover the expected roughly $14.4 million annual loss.
 
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