AlvinofDiaspar said:
TJ O'Pootertoot:

Actually both STC and VMC extensions are cut from the same cloth (i.e. if you build it they will come), with a 30 year gap in between. The more traditional line of thinking would perhaps be building lower-order modes first, and upgrade to subways as demand justifies it. There are many problems with transit in the GTA and number 1 on that list is the absolute unwillingness for n incremental approach - which when mixed with politics becomes an utterly toxic brew for determining priorities.

AoD
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I largely agree though I'd argue STC is already a bit of a failed node (and certainly the larger corridor) whereas Vaughan is a greenfield site. More to the point, York University has long been ready for the upgrade from buses and the 407 Transitway (if it actually comes) justifies going the small distance north. So, they're both going "nowhere," from a certain point of view, but I choose to see the positives in trying to get ahead of the curve even if there are still other areas that obviously need catch-up.

I don't entirely buy the incremental approach thing, either. The Yonge extension is another thread but all you have to do is stand at Yonge-Steeles for 15 minutes and watch all the buses going by to see that an upgrade is more than justified there. Sure, there's not much at the terminal point right now but there's a GO station and a major BRT terminal and high-density zoning so that's enough reason to not wait. The idea of "incrementally" bringing the subway up to Steeles for now is just ridiculous.

In short, the "traditional line of thinking," is just that and, as you point out, it was effectively undermined by politics and other problems in Toronto. So, now they're trying something new. Now we're going to build transit and intensify around it in suburban areas that haven't already been sprawl-ified. It's amazing the lack of vision in Toronto/Metro hasn't doomed the city but while The Big Move is as flawed as any plan, it's a much better starting point than whatever game it is Toronto council has been playing for the past 10 years. The rest of us are just ditching that "traditional line of thinking" while Toronto flounders about, making half-assed attempts to...well, I don't even know what the goal is. Giving subways to whoever will vote for the mayor, I guess. The "incremental" approach doesn't work when you try it for 30 years and don't build anything while failing to even maintain a state of good repair.

Oh and as for the names, I don't see how VMC is an "advertisement." I don't see it as such, so clearly it can be perceived as otherwise.

It's the designated, municipal name of the area, same as North York Centre, a name I'm sure people scoffed at circa 1980. Yeah, it's the city's brand but it's not a specific development. For example, Markham Centre is the urban growth centre out thataways and Downtown Markham is a specific subdivision. The latter, as a name for a station, would be an advertisement, the former wouldn't. So, Scarborough TOWN Centre is a mall, and Scarborough Centre is a place. If they want to call it "Awesome Scarborough Place," that's up to them. I guess my point is, yeah, it's a lot of syllables but otherwise, who cares?
 
not sure if this was mentioned before but acknowledging the 1 year delay of completion cant the TTC still temporarily open a barebones version of the stations for the pan am games in 2015? I assume by summer 2015 the majority of the stations structurally should be almost done and the rest is probably the furnishings and decor. if thats the case could they move up the priority for electrical work and install temporary ticketing machines and booths so that the extension can open temporarily until the games are over. this could at least save the city some face as the extension was probably part of the sales pitch that won the city the PA games in the first place.
 
cplchanb said:
not sure if this was mentioned before but acknowledging the 1 year delay of completion cant the TTC still temporarily open a barebones version of the stations for the pan am games in 2015? I assume by summer 2015 the majority of the stations structurally should be almost done and the rest is probably the furnishings and decor. if thats the case could they move up the priority for electrical work and install temporary ticketing machines and booths so that the extension can open temporarily until the games are over. this could at least save the city some face as the extension was probably part of the sales pitch that won the city the PA games in the first place.
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I raised this point earlier (my thought was that the tunnel work would be done, they could prioritze finishing the York U station and just run the trains direct from Downsview to York)....the answer (from people far more knowledgeable than me) was that this was unlikely to be possible.

I doubt the extension was part of the sales pitch because the actual location of events was not known by then. The track and field stadium/events was originally supposed to be in Hamilton. That said, if they did not know that tennis was going to be at York then they were not thinking ;).
 
raptor said:
BCPV station was just renamed to Pioneer Village station.
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I didn't think there was a stupider version of that name to be found but, congratulations to the TTC, you've done it again.
From Steeles West to Black Creek Pioneer Village (which was long and not particularly geographically accurate) to Pioneer Village, which is shorter but even less geographiaclly specific. Why not call it "Near York" station? It has the same sort of poetic je nai sais quoi but works on two levels which, I think is pretty sophisticated....
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Why not call it "Near York" station? It has the same sort of poetic je nai sais quoi but works on two levels which, I think is pretty sophisticated....
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Though technically it's in York ... at least the entrance closest to the Pioneer Village. (Am I the only person who expects to see a gas station nearby?).
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
I didn't think there was a stupider version of that name to be found but, congratulations to the TTC, you've done it again.
From Steeles West to Black Creek Pioneer Village (which was long and not particularly geographically accurate) to Pioneer Village, which is shorter but even less geographiaclly specific. Why not call it "Near York" station? It has the same sort of poetic je nai sais quoi but works on two levels which, I think is pretty sophisticated....
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I don't think it's worse. At least Pioneer Village Station is now consistent with Museum Station (though it is still too far from the public entrance) and much easier for cartographers and for giving directions. And as for the VMC name, my biggest issue is the length more than the amusing over-compensation. If it was shorter, but still with that Metro branding why not "Vaughan Metro Station" instead of "Vaughan Metropolitan Centre Station" - it'd be a chuckle, but it'd work. And fit on maps a lot easier.
 
ShonTron said:
I don't think it's worse. At least Pioneer Village Station is now consistent with Museum Station (though it is still too far from the public entrance) and much easier for cartographers and for giving directions. And as for the VMC name, my biggest issue is the length more than the amusing over-compensation. If it was shorter, but still with that Metro branding why not "Vaughan Metro Station" instead of "Vaughan Metropolitan Centre Station" - it'd be a chuckle, but it'd work. And fit on maps a lot easier.
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To that point....."station" does not appear on any of the maps for existing stations.....so Pioneer Village Station will appear as "Pioneer Village" and VMC Station will be "Vaughan Metropolitan Centre"....not much longer than, say, North York Centre on the current maps.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The short form of the name is Llanfairpwllgwyngyll or Llanfair Pwllgwyngyll. It is commonly known as Llanfair PG or Llanfairpwll.
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So your comparing the situation to a town that was deliberately renamed in the 1800s as a publicity stunt for the very reason to give their station the longest name of any railway station in the UK?
 
nfitz said:
So your comparing the situation to a town that was deliberately renamed in the 1800s as a publicity stunt for the very reason to give their station the longest name of any railway station in the UK?
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And uses a pre-wheel of fortune language preventing them from buying enough vowels!
 
nfitz said:
So your comparing the situation to a town that was deliberately renamed in the 1800s as a publicity stunt for the very reason to give their station the longest name of any railway station in the UK?
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Not really that different from an unwieldy station name that is the production of an intentional marketing scheme, when you think about it.

AoD
 
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