^I’m no transit expert and there is no doubt that Toronto’s transit network needs a mind boggling amount of work but I really encourage people viewing this to experience public transit on the ground around the world. Map comparisons don’t tell the real story. Some maps that look good on paper are even more impressive in real life. Some cities have extensive maps but no more than one or two lines that are even in the same league as what we would call subways. Transit in some cities will totally change your mind about subways or transit in general.

For example when I visited Vienna their (then) lack of a central train station really bothered me on paper until I experienced their decentralized multi-station subway-connected approach. The subways also run on fixed time schedules. This is actually brilliant in it’s own way.

Another example is Tokyo where their extensive subway system is impressive until you realize that taking the subway is a crap and convoluted way of getting around the city. The JP rail lines are where it’s at. The best way to get around is taking JP rail to a station closest to your destination and transferring to a subway line for only a few stops to get you closer to your destination.
 
TrickyRicky said:
^I’m no transit expert and there is no doubt that Toronto’s transit network needs a mind boggling amount of work but I really encourage people viewing this to experience public transit on the ground around the world. Map comparisons don’t tell the real story. Some maps that look good on paper are even more impressive in real life. Some cities have extensive maps but no more than one or two lines that are even in the same league as what we would call subways. Transit in some cities will totally change your mind about subways or transit in general.

For example when I visited Vienna their (then) lack of a central train station really bothered me on paper until I experienced their decentralized multi-station subway-connected approach. The subways also run on fixed time schedules. This is actually brilliant in it’s own way.

Another example is Tokyo where their extensive subway system is impressive until you realize that taking the subway is a crap and convoluted way of getting around the city. The JP rail lines are where it’s at. The best way to get around is taking JP rail to a station closest to your destination and transferring to a subway line for only a few stops to get you closer to your destination.
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It is like London. Most tourists think the tube is the only and best way to get around London but in reality the Overground is MUCH better albeit less frequent but on a fixed schedule. It is climate controlled and will take you around London. Busses are also better than the tube. I actually preferred them in rush hour over the tube.

If you look at a TFL map you see all the amazing tube lines which look good on paper but they are pain in the ass to navigate. What the maps don't tell you is that the stations are crowded most of the time and that you could be surprised by a station closure as a result of that overcrowding.
 
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Richard White said:
It is like London. Most tourists think the tube is the only and best way to get around London but in reality the Overground is MUCH better albeit less frequent and but on a fixed schedule. It is climate controlled and will take you around London. Busses are also better than the tube. I actually preferred them in rush hour over the tube.

If you look at a TFL map you see all the amazing tube lines which look good on paper but they are pain in the ass to navigate. What the maps don't tell you is that the stations are crowded most of the time and that you could be surprised by a station closure as a result of that overcrowding.
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Once GO RER/Smart track i implemented, that will be true of Toronto.
 
micheal_can said:
I wonder how the various Canadian RT would compare.
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Montreal:
Route Length: 69
Stations: 68
Passengers/Year: 356 million
Number of Lines: 4
Cost Per Ride: 3.25
Age: 1966 (52 years)

Toronto:
Route Length: 68.3 (+8.6 As of Dec) (19 km under construction, 6.2 km Approved, 44 Proposed)
Stations: 69 (+6 as of Dec) (25 under construction, 1 approved, ~39 Proposed)
Passengers/Year: 303 Million
Number of Lines: 4 (+1 under construction)
Cost Per Ride: 3.25 (3.00 Tokens)
Age: 1954 (64 years)

Vancouver:
Route Length: 79.6 km
Stations: 53
Passengers/Year: 137 million
Number of Lines: 3
Cost Per Ride: Zones: (2.85-10.60)
Age: 1985 (33 years)

Carriage:
Cleanliness: Toronto (in general), Montreal (seats), Vancouver (floors)
Size of Cars: Toronto
Smoothness: Vancouver
Wifi: Toronto
Passenger Weirdness: Tie (personal experiences, toronto)
Interior Space: Toronto (Larger Trains)
HVAC: Toronto (Vancouver is often outside)
Navigation: Toronto (Numbers, Colours, and Names)
Design: Toronto (Okay, I'm biased here, the T1s, HSeries, M cars and G cars from a Railfan's perspective are amazing, and they run on steel wheels!)

Stations:
Cleanliness: Vancouver
Navigation: Toronto (Again, line colours, numbers, and Names. Signage everywhere)
Cellphone Coverage: Toronto (No service in Vancouver's tunnels, and Montreal's is only on part of the system (however, it serves more carriers, take your pick))
Ticket Purchase: Toronto (Fare boxes at every station)
Travel Cards: All are basically the same, one could argue against PRESTO's issues, but it serves far more transit agencies. Again, take your pick
Ticket Barriers: Toronto/Vancouver (Montreal uses turnstiles)
Design: Montreal
 
Richard White said:
It is like London. Most tourists think the tube is the only and best way to get around London but in reality the Overground is MUCH better albeit less frequent but on a fixed schedule. It is climate controlled and will take you around London. Busses are also better than the tube. I actually preferred them in rush hour over the tube.

If you look at a TFL map you see all the amazing tube lines which look good on paper but they are pain in the ass to navigate. What the maps don't tell you is that the stations are crowded most of the time and that you could be surprised by a station closure as a result of that overcrowding.
Click to expand...

Not all the London Underground lines suck tremendously, these lines are great: Hammersmith and City, District, Circle, and especially the Metropolitan (it runs express). Have to agree that the Overground is the best thing in London after the subsurface subway lines.

Not only that, but transfers are HORRIBLE. It's a good 5-10 minute walk to transfer for many lines.
 
Streety McCarface said:
Not all the London Underground lines suck tremendously, these lines are great: Hammersmith and City, District, Circle, and especially the Metropolitan (it runs express). Have to agree that the Overground is the best thing in London after the subsurface subway lines.

Not only that, but transfers are HORRIBLE. It's a good 5-10 minute walk to transfer for many lines.
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ACTUALLY... the Metropolitan line does not run express. It is single tracked and not capable of such things. After certain hours it does not stop at certain stations, merely bypassing them because other lines also service the same station. It may seem express but it really is not and not in central London, only in the extreme northwest out near Amersham does it do this.

To that end.. I know what you mean about the transfers. I once made the mistake of trying to transfer from the Bakerloo to the Waterloo and City line.. then to the DLR from the Waterloo and City line at Bank. Remind me never to do that again and if I try.. shoot me.

Also.. folks never use a flash to take pictures of a DLR train.. you will set off anti-terrorism alarms and be met by British Transport Police. I did that and apparently the flash looks like a bomb blast on CCTV.
 
Richard White said:
ACTUALLY... the Metropolitan line does not run express. It is single tracked and not capable of such things. After certain hours it does not stop at certain stations, merely bypassing them because other lines also service the same station. It may seem express but it really is not and not in central London, only in the extreme northwest out near Amersham does it do this.

To that end.. I know what you mean about the transfers. I once made the mistake of trying to transfer from the Bakerloo to the Waterloo and City line.. then to the DLR from the Waterloo and City line at Bank. Remind me never to do that again and if I try.. shoot me.

Also.. folks never use a flash to take pictures of a DLR train.. you will set off anti-terrorism alarms and be met by British Transport Police. I did that and apparently the flash looks like a bomb blast on CCTV.
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Was referring to the section between Baker St and Wembley Park, where it runs parallel to the Jubilee and skips a bunch of stops.
 
Richard White said:
It is like London. Most tourists think the tube is the only and best way to get around London but in reality the Overground is MUCH better albeit less frequent but on a fixed schedule. It is climate controlled and will take you around London. Busses are also better than the tube. I actually preferred them in rush hour over the tube.

If you look at a TFL map you see all the amazing tube lines which look good on paper but they are pain in the ass to navigate. What the maps don't tell you is that the stations are crowded most of the time and that you could be surprised by a station closure as a result of that overcrowding.
Click to expand...

micheal_can said:
Once GO RER/Smart track i implemented, that will be true of Toronto.
Click to expand...

People are vastly overestimating how RER services will be for travel within Toronto, by treating in-vehicle travel time as the only component contributing to overall trip times. Several things are going to limit RER's effectiveness for travel within Toronto:

  1. RER services are relatively infrequent (outside the central core), with trains coming roughly every 7 to 15 minutes. In the time spent waiting for an RER train, you could travel quite a distance on Toronto's conventional mass transit system
  2. Nearly all of GO's trips are to/from Union Station, and this won't change significantly with RER. Only a small portion of Downtown Toronto (mainly the Financial District and Southcore) is walking distance from Union. To access other services, transfers to other services will be necessary. Union Station is large, crowded, and this transfer takes several minutes to make
  3. Toronto bus routes all interchange with at least one subway station. However, a large portion of Toronto bus routes will never interchange with any RER station. So getting to an RER station by bus will often require multiple busses. This renders the service ineffective for a large portion of the population.
  4. These RER stations are being built on rail lines that were intended for largely industrial purposes. Accordingly, many of these stations are quite out-of-the-way and relatively inaccessible by foot. For example, without significant design changes, it's going to take several minutes for pedestrians to access Guildwood GO Station from Kingston Road
RER won't be comparable to the London Overground until there is at least an RER subway running through downtown with several stations, with perhaps the activation a GO Midtown rail corridor (near Summerhill TTC station). This will dramatically cut travel times, as the convoluted Union Station transfer will be eliminated for a large portion of users. I figure a somewhat likely outcome 50+ years from now is an RER tunnel on King Street, with a DRL subway on Queen Street.
 
Richard White said:
ACTUALLY... the Metropolitan line does not run express. It is single tracked and not capable of such things. After certain hours it does not stop at certain stations, merely bypassing them because other lines also service the same station. It may seem express but it really is not and not in central London, only in the extreme northwest out near Amersham does it do this.
Click to expand...
The met runs 3 different types of services during rush hour: all stations, semi fast, and fast. Semi fast and fast services begin to skip stops after Wembley Park when it becomes double track in both direction between Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill. Bear in mind they only run express south during morning rush and north during afternoon rush.
 
darth_freeman said:
This is a joke right? It's ridiculously easy to get around downtown compared to anywhere else. Sure, it's busy at 5pm, but so is the metro of every other major city in the world.
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Get me from Bathurst and King to Broadview and queen in under 30 minutes, please. That is 4.5km. That trip averages probably around 10km/h right now, and that is with the king street pilot. That is not fast. Bathurst to Broadview on the Bloor line takes 10 minutes.
 
Richard White said:
ACTUALLY... the Metropolitan line does not run express. It is single tracked and not capable of such things. After certain hours it does not stop at certain stations, merely bypassing them because other lines also service the same station. It may seem express but it really is not and not in central London, only in the extreme northwest out near Amersham does it do this.

To that end.. I know what you mean about the transfers. I once made the mistake of trying to transfer from the Bakerloo to the Waterloo and City line.. then to the DLR from the Waterloo and City line at Bank. Remind me never to do that again and if I try.. shoot me.

Also.. folks never use a flash to take pictures of a DLR train.. you will set off anti-terrorism alarms and be met by British Transport Police. I did that and apparently the flash looks like a bomb blast on CCTV.
Click to expand...

On opening day of the Line 1 extension into Vaughan, there were announcements for people not to use their flash on their smartphones or cameras. It would blind the operators, so is a no-no then. Wonder if they add that "flash" request in the TTC By-law No. 1, see link.
 
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