Tdot_one said:
It's just 2.5km from Steeles West, though. That station, York University, and Sheppard West, are close to huge trip generators. York U students and working class residents of Jane and Finch will utilize the line.

In Vaughan, the feeder network on the 407 Transitway should be significant as well. The GO buses are used and will certainly help feed the Spadina line. VCC is the only question mark, but then we're only talking about a measly 0.9km.
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I think his point was, and many would agree with this, is that development and intensification elsewhere in the 416/immediate 905 area have not been tied to mass transit projects. The growth has occured organically in lieu of it and now it has come to the point that these areas need the higher-order transit to sustain them even moreso than these new satelite nodes in suburbia really do. But I digress, population size and preexisting demand for transit seem to be complete afterthoughts when building these lines otherwise TYSSE would be 75% at- or above-grade and end at Steeles. VIVA Orange is the least used of the full-service all-day higher-order rapid transit routes YRT operates. That's telling.
 
I'm in favour of the Spadina extension to VMC. I'm probably a little biased in the sense that it would take me a whopping 2 minutes to walk to work from the VMCC Station. Regardless I am quite familiar with the VMC area and the planning that is taking place for it, on both public and private levels. The City is updating the Corporate Centre Secondary Plan as part of their Official Plan Review and it is totally based around the Spadina extension. There is also the Steeles West Corridor Secondary Plan (OPA 620) that provides a framework around Steeles West Station. Planning is also going on around the 407 Transitway Station as there is lots of land to the west of Jane that will not sit as empty fields or giant parking lots forever.

My point was these will all take time to come to fruition. There will be the inevitable changes to them as private landowners will seek to develop their own plans. How it all turns out is impossible to know at this point, and basing subway expansion on how VMC turns out in 20 years is wasting a lot of time on other subway expansion projects, like Yonge to RHC, Sheppard west to Downsview and east to SCC, B-D to SCC (and either Sheppard or B-D further east to Centenial perhaps), and DRL. As well, proper LRT on Eglinton and Hurontario, and streetcar ROWs to and within East Bayfront, West Don Lands and Lower Don Lands.
 
marcus_a_j said:
I'm in favour of the Spadina extension to VMC. I'm probably a little biased in the sense that it would take me a whopping 2 minutes to walk to work from the VMCC Station. Regardless I am quite familiar with the VMC area and the planning that is taking place for it, on both public and private levels. The City is updating the Corporate Centre Secondary Plan as part of their Official Plan Review and it is totally based around the Spadina extension. There is also the Steeles West Corridor Secondary Plan (OPA 620) that provides a framework around Steeles West Station. Planning is also going on around the 407 Transitway Station as there is lots of land to the west of Jane that will not sit as empty fields or giant parking lots forever.

My point was these will all take time to come to fruition. There will be the inevitable changes to them as private landowners will seek to develop their own plans. How it all turns out is impossible to know at this point, and basing subway expansion on how VMC turns out in 20 years is wasting a lot of time on other subway expansion projects, like Yonge to RHC, Sheppard west to Downsview and east to SCC, B-D to SCC (and either Sheppard or B-D further east to Centenial perhaps), and DRL. As well, proper LRT on Eglinton and Hurontario, and streetcar ROWs to and within East Bayfront, West Don Lands and Lower Don Lands.
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I never said it should be judged on how the VCC extension does, but that it will be; just as Sheppard was judged to be a "failure", and hence the shelving of the Rapid Transit Expansion Study (RTES) and the decision to put Toronto on the same level as second-tier European cities rather than alpha cities like NYC, London, Paris and Tokyo which have expansive subway systems :) But that's just my opinion. I don't think Sheppard was a failure. It wouldn't have been my choice of subway line (I think Eglinton West should have been built) but we have it now, we should finish what we started and not make things worse by making it even more of a stump that will never be completed. We already have a stump line that we should be shooting dead (SRT).
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I never said it should be judged on how the VCC extension does, but that it will be; just as Sheppard was judged to be a "failure", and hence the shelving of the Rapid Transit Expansion Study (RTES) and the decision to put Toronto on the same level as second-tier European cities rather than alpha cities like NYC, London, Paris and Tokyo which have expansive subway systems :) But that's just my opinion. I don't think Sheppard was a failure. It wouldn't have been my choice of subway line (I think Eglinton West should have been built) but we have it now, we should finish what we started and not make things worse by making it even more of a stump that will never be completed. We already have a stump line that we should be shooting dead (SRT).
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I don't want to nit-pick, but making a city pretty or transit friendly isn't exactly the key to being an important city. Less than 1/3 of all people in Amsterdam use cars, but it's one of those second-tier European cities as you say. Mexico City has an amazing RT network, but both Canada and the US barely recognize it as the largest city in North America, and it's not even as important as Chicago, from a world perspective. Madrid's got an amazing Metro network, but it's one of those second-tier cities. Curitiba has an outstanding transit system, but they're nowheres near the levels of a global city.
Just saying, there's much much much more to being a global city than transit, as people say. I think that Toronto could make it, maybe even up to the likes of Paris or maybe even Tokyo, but transit would only be a secondary factor, if that. You should be basing transit on the benefits to the city's development and living conditions, not it's "global-ness."
 
if only we could build a time machine and fast forward to the year 2020...
 
The designs of the stations are a small part of the cost of building subways in Toronto. The significant cost is due to tunneling. I would say Sheppard's station are pretty basic, and the line still cost around $200/km. I would much prefer a nice subway, rather than a "no frill" line just to get a few extra hundred meters. Having "basic" stations is not going to reduce costs that much.
 
Does anyone know what the building code says about subway stations? I've had a funny feeling that the code is the reason why they are so spacious, but haven't been able to find an answer.
 
RedRocket191 said:
Does anyone know what the building code says about subway stations? I've had a funny feeling that the code is the reason why they are so spacious, but haven't been able to find an answer.
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in the event of a fire, open spaces with high ceilings allow space for smoke to rise up to. it buys you time to escape. rooms start filling with smoke from the ceiling down.
 
I suspected as much, but that's not quite what I'm asking. Allow me to clarify:

I guess the root question hinges on the premise that the current crop of stations being planned are "overbuild" and building stations like Chester and Christie should be constructed to save money. Can the demands for stations that aren't "overbuilt" be satisfied while still being in keeping with the Building Code Act?
 
Maybe it would be wiser if the TTC only constructs the tunnels, and leaves station building to a separate agency like Metrolinx. Trying to build both simultaneously under the same management team obviously isn't working. PPP could get involved if necessary. Below-grade infrastructure for additional “infill†stations could be added later with separate funding schemes. But yeah, designing the tunnels with knock out panels such that there are bay platforms on either side, might significantly reduce overall cost projections. Throwing all this cash at the TTC only begs for them to misappropriate spending.
 
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