[Hamiltonian]

WOW! The black and white scheme in the food courts looks so luxurious! Not as nice as the black and white scheme at the Rivers Oaks Shopping Center but very close! I did not know that they were doing that!

 

[Mithras]

They're not improving any tenant mix, they are simply moving an entrance and creating access to a lower level area that was dying. It was a poor design to begin with. This is not and will not be, an exciting shopping experience. Making piecemeal alterations will not fix the fact that this mall is way overdo for a major rethink and rebuild. Don't tell me the population and infrastructure aren't there because most are, and significant transit improvements are underway.

What's missing is vision and moxie.

And again, how are doing any of those things going to make an accretive return on their investment? Spending another half billion on that mall is simply not going to make it worth half a billion more.

 

[drum118]

And again, how are doing any of those things going to make an accretive return on their investment? Spending another half billion on that mall is simply not going to make it worth half a billion more.

If you reduce the size of the mall by going up in size, how much money do you think you will get for that extra land as well more money per sq foot in sales?

I can take that land and get a 10+ times the return on it after building a new mall that is double the size it is now.

 

[Mithras]

Increasing the size of the mall probably won't have much of an impact on sales psf. Total sales yes. At the end of the day, even going up, you can't increase the size too much more (maybe 30%?) as you can't really move the anchors. So the footprint isn't going to change much even if you add height. Making it bigger either through a bigger footprint or more height means you have to have more parking and Square One is right at the point of needing more podium parking as it is. That starts to get really expensive. Don't want the eyesore of podium and want it underground instead? That's REALLY expensive.

Square One isn't going to go through a transformational change lets face it. It's already two stories and there aren't a lot of multi-story malls that do well that are more than that unless they were designed like that from the get go (Eaton Centre). I can see a better connection to transit in the future and Oxfor may do some res. development but that's going to be it.

 

[Dan416]

I agree with Mithras, although far down the line it is possible that parts of Square One may be redeveloped. Once MCC starts to run out of space maybe.

 

[Big Daddy]

I think they should be building over the vast parking areas with office, condo, hotel projects and park space and build large parking areas underneath. I don't see why all the condo towers are locating around a parking lot instead of over it.

If other developers can come to Mississauga and profit from developing land around Square One why can't Oxford make money developing on Square One? What am I missing? Or more to the point, what is Oxford missing?

 

[interchange42]

For one thing, you're missing that at a certain density, you can no longer rely on just cars and buses to move people around, you've got to have rapid tranist.

You're also missing that people expect to park for free at Square One. Put all of it underground and they'll have to charge for it, and locals will drive to Erin Mills Town Centre instead, for example.

These kinds of things happen when cities are ready for them. You increase densities by increments. Despite tall towers popping up around Square One, the densities are still pretty low overall compared to those that allow an Eaton Centre to exist in dntn Toronto. With that shopping centre, there are a couple garages that have a fraction of the space that Square One lots provide, and the vast majority arrive on foot and by transit.

Once the land supply in the area runs low, and rapid transit is in place, you'll see Oxford, or whoever the owner is at that point, being able to afford to spend the money to intensify the Square One lands.

42

 

[Mithras]

For one thing, you're missing that at a certain density, you can no longer rely on just cars and buses to move people around, you've got to have rapid tranist.

You're also missing that people expect to park for free at Square One. Put all of it underground and they'll have to charge for it, and locals will drive to Erin Mills Town Centre instead, for example.

These kinds of things happen when cities are ready for them. You increase densities by increments. Despite tall towers popping up around Square One, the densities are still pretty low overall compared to those that allow an Eaton Centre to exist in dntn Toronto. With that shopping centre, there are a couple garages that have a fraction of the space that Square One lots provide, and the vast majority arrive on foot and by transit.

Once the land supply in the area runs low, and rapid transit is in place, you'll see Oxford, or whoever the owner is at that point, being able to afford to spend the money to intensify the Square One lands.

42

This!

 

[Big Daddy]

For one thing, you're missing that at a certain density, you can no longer rely on just cars and buses to move people around, you've got to have rapid tranist.

You're also missing that people expect to park for free at Square One. Put all of it underground and they'll have to charge for it, and locals will drive to Erin Mills Town Centre instead, for example.

These kinds of things happen when cities are ready for them. You increase densities by increments. Despite tall towers popping up around Square One, the densities are still pretty low overall compared to those that allow an Eaton Centre to exist in dntn Toronto. With that shopping centre, there are a couple garages that have a fraction of the space that Square One lots provide, and the vast majority arrive on foot and by transit.

Once the land supply in the area runs low, and rapid transit is in place, you'll see Oxford, or whoever the owner is at that point, being able to afford to spend the money to intensify the Square One lands.

42

I don't entirely disagree, however, I believe the density option is already there - just drive by and see how many towers are popping up just outside the mall property. Also, I think it is great that they are now bringing a transit line to the airport, but why is it so difficult for Metrolinx to include a plan to continue the Eglinton line to Square One. it seems they go out of their way to ignore the suburbs. Connecting the Boor line or the Eglinton line to Square One would greatly reduce the crush of traffic on the 401 and 403 and QEW. Why does the proposed phase 2 of the Eglinton line veer toward the airport again instead of Square One?
Very short sighted IMO.

 

[interchange42]

Mississauga's Busway is under construction right now between Square One and Highway 427. It will be open long before the Crosstown line gets anywhere near the airport (where the two will meet).

It's an incremental step in getting Square One a bit of rapid transit, with buses being fed eventually down the 427 to the end of the Bloor Danforth line.

42

 

[drum118]

Mississauga's Busway is under construction right now between Square One and Highway 427. It will be open long before the Crosstown line gets anywhere near the airport (where the two will meet).

It's an incremental step in getting Square One a bit of rapid transit, with buses being fed eventually down the 427 to the end of the Bloor Danforth line.

42

2015 is the timeline for the Transitway opening with part of it opening in early 2014 that was supposed to open in Oct 2013. The buses are using 427 now and will see a new route in 2015 when the full Transitway opens.

Based on what taking place for the floor tiles, it looks like they will not be done for the full lower level until Mach. They should have the food court area done by Nov 8 as they will need the centre court to set up Santa if they still plan on doing it there.

They are installing new seating area for the new Food Court area and looks like they will be doing the same thing for the existing area.
Nov 2

 

[Big Daddy]

Mississauga's Busway is under construction right now between Square One and Highway 427. It will be open long before the Crosstown line gets anywhere near the airport (where the two will meet).

It's an incremental step in getting Square One a bit of rapid transit, with buses being fed eventually down the 427 to the end of the Bloor Danforth line.

42

IMO the busway is a joke - it will take people around Toronto but not into ịt. If you want to go downtown, you will have to pile onto already overcrowded subway lines. This is not a solution.

 

[Dan416]

The Mississauga BRT is a poor man's Bloor line extension to Square One, nothing more, nothing less. Does that make it a joke? Maybe. We'll have to see how well it works.

But I'm not sure what else you would expect. There's already buses every half hour that take you straight to Union Station pretty much every day of the week, all day.

 

[Big Daddy]

The Mississauga BRT is a poor man's Bloor line extension to Square One, nothing more, nothing less. Does that make it a joke? Maybe. We'll have to see how well it works.

But I'm not sure what else you would expect. There's already buses every half hour that take you straight to Union Station pretty much every day of the week, all day.

1). I think you mean Eglinton extension - but phase 2 of the Eglinton LRT is a long way off.

2). Buses aren't going to move enough people to take any appreciable amount of traffic off either the 401 or 403.

Until the Eglinton LRT second phase is complete - if ever - this is a busway to nowhere.

TTC map

 

[Dan416]

1). I think you mean Eglinton extension - but phase 2 of the Eglinton LRT is a long way off.

2). Buses aren't going to move enough people to take any appreciable amount of traffic off either the 401 or 403.

Until the Eglinton LRT second phase is complete - if ever - this is a busway to nowhere.

No, I do not mean the Eglinton LRT. The buses will be connecting to Kipling subway station, so that's why I call it a poor man's Bloor extension.

http://www7.mississauga.ca/Documents/tw/transitway/MississaugaBusRapidTransitProject_FullMap.pdf

http://www7.mississauga.ca/Document...ississaugaTransitway_ConstructionSchedule.pdf

Although God know why it's going to take another 2 years to get the majority of the busway done, and another 4 years to get Kipling done.