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To syn: Yes, ridership is up on St. Clair and growing. Additional off-peak service was added earlier this year. Probably need to add more service, but the lack of availability of vehicles is a peak period constraint, and budget is a problem for all service additions. As a street for motorists, St. Clair is no different now than most urban arterials with two traffic lanes in each direction, except that it has left turn lanes at all signals, which most (like Queen, Dundas etc) don't. During the off-peak times, the on-street parking takes up the curb lane in each direction, but that is also similar to most other non-suburban arterials. Before the ROW, the extra lane in each direction on St. Clair was often blocked by delivery vehicles or cars double-parked (illegally), so it didn't actually contribute as much to the operational capacity of the road as everyone thinks.

The critics of the ROW always focused on changes to travel time as the main benefit, and used this a basis to justify their position that a "few minutes" saving is not worth all the trouble. The TTC's contention was always that reliability was the more important benefit, with decreased travel time being a secondary benefit. More riders, fewer delays, significantly fewer short-turns, faster trips, better cost efficiency -- the ROW has achieved everything that it was intended to do.

As for the cost, let's remember that the $106 million final cost included many things that were actually not related to the transit project itself, such as hydro undergrounding, sewer and water main replacements etc. The specific, transit-related costs were somewhere around $60 million, so the service-related benefits should be looked at in the context of that number, not the total project cost of $106 million, and certainly not in the context of some made-up fantasy number ($400 million? sheesh!) quoted by ROW critics for whom the truth is an inconvenience.

St. Clair is already a success, and it will only get better. There are just some people who are too stubborn and closed-minded to admit that they were wrong about the "pinko" streetcar project. Beyond pointing out the facts, I don't waste my time with them.
 
Regarding traffic, it must be acknowledged that it does get backed up, sometimes severely, going westbound towards Keele.
There is only one car lane through the rail underpass. Traffic at rush hour was exceptionally bad in this area to begin with and this change did make it slightly worse. Walking St. Clair last Sunday, westbound traffic was backed up from Keele all the way to Dufferin.

On the other hand, this removed the one of the top 3 delay points from the pre-ROW era.
 
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I was on St.Clair just two weeks ago walking in the Corso Italia area. The place is so much nicer now. I was a little surprised how infrequent the streetcars were considering how packed they were. It was packed from the back to the front with very little remaining standing room. Once this route gets the new streetcars I think I would visit the area quite regularly.
 
I don't think that suburban big box store setup at Keele does much to alleviate traffic either, in fact quite the opposite. And something is getting built across the street from it.
 
I don't think that suburban big box store setup at Keele does much to alleviate traffic either, in fact quite the opposite. And something is getting built across the street from it.

Are you talking about the north side between Gunns and Keele??

If So, its another big box complex, but more urban design.

30Weston1_Planning.jpg

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...ty-2s-GreenbergFarrow)/page2?highlight=weston
 
I don't think that suburban big box store setup at Keele does much to alleviate traffic either, in fact quite the opposite. And something is getting built across the street from it.

This whole area has problems because of the rail lines, the narrow streets through the Junction and the meandering roads liek Dundas and Weston.
It's quite amazing how the streets in this part of town are all unaligned with the grid the rest of the city is on.
At some point a long term solution will have to be planned out given the rising density of this area.
 
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This whole area has problems because of the rail lines, the narrow streets through the Junction and the meandering roads liek Dundas and Weston.
It's quite amazing how the streets in this part of town are all unaligned with the grid the rest of the city is on.
At some point a long term solution will have to be planned out given the rising density of this area.

There is a long term plan for the whole of St Clair Ave, west of Keele St. The St Clair ROW is included for the plan west of Gunns Rd also. There is a plan for the eastern section also

St Clair will be like the rest of St Clair for traffic lanes.

The south side land will be used for any road widening.

As far as I know, there is no plans for Keele and Weston Rd.

The real issue for all the roads in this area is traffic and how to deal with it.

The only way you are going to deal with it, is to start at ground zero. At this time, no level of government in prepare to start at ground zero.

Ground zero is the driveway or the parking area of homes, condos and apartments.

If you have space for 1 or 2 cars, you better have 1 or 2 cars, not the 3-6 that can be found right across the board.

I will take the flack with no problem for this comment.

We ""MUST"" stop building places of residents that have more than 1 parking spots to the point that there is only 50% or less parking space of the number of units in them in the first place. At the same time, we must reduces the size of parking lots for shopping centres.

We have no more room to build new roads or highways or to expand them in the first place. Where are we going to place those 3 million cars coming on line over the next 30 years if we have no space for what we have today??

The real problem trying to reduce the parking requirements is the lack of real rapid transit as well as transit itself.

Urban planning is another real problem as that low density vision from the 40-60' has come back to crew the ass of those planners for creating the mess we have today for traffic.

When one looks back on history, we can see transit ridership started to fall when urban sprawl stated and the removal of streetcars systems that were replace by buses, right across North America, less alone Toronto. It is a proven fact that some routes saw as much as 75% drop in ridership to the point that lines disappear over times.

My heart does not go out to those who complain about the various traffic issues on St Clair at "Peak Time", because, the rest of the time the road operates fine. This also applies to any road in NA.

As for the Weston Rd/Keele St/St Clair area problem, got to thank City Hall for creating that mess. The residents living in those townhouse in the north east corner of the intersection are not going to be happy about having 6 tracks right against them when they were built into the ROW in the first place in the name of $$. That was a huge mistake and the railway, especially GO get the flack these days for that development that got built “TOO” close the the tracks in the first place, all in the name of the “Mighty Buck”.

Over 75% of all traffic on St Clair is from outside the area in the first place who are looking for a fast route to get to the city downtown or cross the city in the first place.
 
Rebuilding the crumbling underpass should prove very interesting. There's land on all sides of St. Clair between Old Weston Road and Keele Street for an additional lane of traffic in each direction, including space for sidewalks. The only exception is at Old Weston Road on the northwest corner, where the Victorian heritage landmark, the Heydon House, is built right up to the sidewalk. This building is among the most important heritage buildings in the area as a former hotel and should not be expropriated and demolished. If the existing sidewalk was eliminated, the extra lane of traffic could be accommodated. Perhaps the only solution would be something novel: build a pedestrian arcade through the building itself, in the part of it closest to the roadway, connecting with a new sidewalk just beyond the building. The store would lose some square footage, but essentially nothing else would change.
 
Anyone notice that more drivers are making U-turns at other intersections other than on St. Clair and Spadina, when they wouldn't have normally do U-turns. I foresee more "NO U-TURNS" signs making their appearances soon at non-ROW intersections.

no%2Bu%2Bturn.png
 
The Return Of "St Clair Nightmare 3" this weekend

I see the Mickey Mouse Road Show is on St Clair this weekend.

Since the weather was against me for doing some Urban photo shooting after getting off the first train from Islington on Sunday, I decided to scoot up to St Clair to see what was taking place for the ramp.

What I saw and heard when I got to the ramp at 9:30 as well seeing it at 2:30 Mickey Mouse was running this show.

If this ramp is to be in service for Monday AM service, an all nightier is required, as well keeping people awake with the jack hammers. Very little in the way of jack hammering has taken place between my two visits.

Crews on my first visit could not figure out why the gas generator kept stopping. Someone then check the fuel tank and said it was empty. They check the 2nd one not been used and it was empty. The 3rd one was the same. No fuel cans around to fill them. What!!, no one checks things before starting work or keep an eye on things?

Some patch work has taken place for the westbound track with cement being made on site with a small cement mixer and only looked like it was pour earlier today.

A lot of manpower working on the switches which is odd since they were rebuilt in 2009.

If they are to do more pouring tonight, slow order will be in place for the ramp so the concrete does fail.

The Bathurst eastbound stop state stop is out of service and board the bus at the curb like the ones west of Bathurst. The problem for this stop is no bus stop sign on the sidewalk and all buses are using Bathurst St to/from St Clair. You have to go to the north Bathurst Stop to get a bus going east.

The buses are going north one block than east to Spadina Rd, south to St Clair, west to the transfer cut-out to use the east ramp to get to St Clair West Station. Same route going west.

If this work is not finish tonight, can riders be in for a bus speical Monday and Tuesday? Will it be put off for a later date in Aug?

I guess TTC and the City are too scare to close both ramps at this point to do the full rebuilt that was supposed to take place in 2009 and take more heat over it. Ford would welcome this heat.

You are better off waking to the station from Bathurst than take the bus tour.

When I left the site, only haft the crew was there from what I saw at 9:30.

The return of St Clair 4 is in the making.
 
[video=youtube;UPw-3e_pzqU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU[/video]

Construction returns to St. Clair Avenue West, at least until December. They are widening St.Clair Avenue roadway to 4 lanes from just west of Gunnes Road to Colbalt Avenue.
 
Replying late, but why four lanes? Is it because of traffic? I know St. Clair has one lane until the old railway track part merged into the sidewalk that was ripped out for sewer overhauling, I'm thinking they should include bike lanes because there are a high number of cyclists, including me, who use that road to get from point A to point B, it even connects to a park. Oin more than one occasion, I was told to get off the road by cab drivers, because I was going way too slow, in which I wasn't even in their way. So bike lanes would add some safety, plenty can agree to that. I wouldn't want to be side-swiped by a cab rushing to get by a ton of traffic and him not paying attention.
 

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