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Let's stop postponing infrastructure and rebuilding in Toronto for possible dreams of an Olympic cash cow, and instead get building the waterfront now with the resources available.

Completely agree. If we build the best city we can for us, it will serve to attract new residents and visitors.
 
Vancouver's security budget has increased to the range of 800 million - 1 billion.

Still a far cry from 10 billion. I know folks who are working on planning security for 2010 from the military side. It's going to be big effort, but not a costly effort. Luckily for the taxpayer, us military people, don't get overtime. We get an extra 20 bucks a day if we have to sleep in a tent but that's about it. So they'll be able to pull off 2010 quite cheaply by having tons of military folks sleeping in mod tents (20 bucks a night is cheaper than paying a hotel tab) and working 18 hr shifts....basically similar to what happens in Afghanistan.
 
Completely agree. If we build the best city we can for us, it will serve to attract new residents and visitors.

Culturally, that isn't the Canadian way. City-building doesn't seem to count as a very high priority for us as a country, and fear of embarrassment on the world stage seems to be an effective way to increase the emphasis placed on it.
 
What you say might be true, but based on the twenty winter Olympics since 1920 and the twenty-six summer Olympics since 1896, the event does not exactly have a long-running success for promoting city building. That is a more recent idea. For much of their existence the games were much smaller-scale affairs.

The Olympics certainly have a good PR value, but then so does city history, media recognition and efforts in building cultural institutions (an example being Bilbao).

Think of the tourism campaign we could do with $800 million? That's the price for security in Vancouver alone.
 
Tell that to Athens. The credit rating for all of Greece was downgraded due to the cost overruns.

Greece is one of the pigs anyways. I personally am not thrilled with hosting Olympics, especially with what will likely happen with finances in Vancouver related to holding the Winter Olympics.

I could support any of those cities, Tokyo, Madrid, or Chicago would all be great cities to host the Olympics - I am fairly familiar with each of those cities and like them all.
 
Think of the tourism campaign we could do with $800 million? That's the price for security in Vancouver alone.

Yes, think of all the fantastic festivals that we could have in Toronto :eek:

Even 100 million would turn Caribanna into an unresistable event.
 
I personally am not thrilled with hosting Olympics, especially with what will likely happen with finances in Vancouver related to holding the Winter Olympics.

I could support any of those cities, Tokyo, Madrid, or Chicago would all be great cities to host the Olympics - I am fairly familiar with each of those cities and like them all.

So in other words, take them elsewhere but not in my backyard.
 
For those promoting the perfectly valid opinion that "we don't need the Olympics to build the city".....I ask:

How is that working out so far?

Who is living in all the affordable apartments created by the proposed athletes village for the 2008 games?

How are we enjoying that waterfront that we have been building since the '70s but would really be accelerated by the 2008 games?

Isn't that network of regional transportation lines that we needed for the 2008 games serving us well now?

Toronto is not alone in needing/wanting high profile events to spur things that are otherwise necessary (that is why cities bid en masse for these events).....but we are a good example of the stagnation that can ocurr when you don't host........it is quite simple to understand, without deadlines things drag along and negotiations take longer and compromises are not made......when there is a hard deadline that says "the world is coming on a certain date" things get done!!!
 
Why on earth would Torontonians (as apart from politicians!) want to host the Olympics - Montreal took 25 years to pay off their debt and Vancouver is already VERY worried.

I think the more interesting question is why 'wouldn't' they want to host? I can only imagine there were decision-making people in all the host cities that were against the games, expressing the same sort of concerns that some do here....*yet* all those cities not only concluded they wanted the games but vied for them, committing to spend the money and effort to do so. Why? Again, I haven't heard a convincing argument that says Toronto would uniquely not benefit...

... and you can't always measure the long term benefits of an investment with the immediate costs associated with it (that approach is for accountants not planners). Yes, you can eventually assess the direct economic impact of the games (tourism and number of visitors, jobs created, spin-off growth to numerous industries, building and infrastructure development etc). Yes, you can tangibly measure the monetary injections from other levels of governments that wouldn't have happened otherwise, and what the city will get with those funds (improvements to transit, public housing, sports facilities, 'city beautiful' investments, cultural investments, etc, and of course the Waterfront).

What you can't always measure is the enormous exposure a city gets from the summer Olympics in particular, an exposure that is unlike any other in terms of its international scale and focus. This is an opportunity for a city and region to capitalize on the extended captive attention of billions of people around the world, allowing it to educate the world about itself and promote/brand itself from many different angles (tourism, arts and culture, business/investment/conventions etc). This is where the Olympics can benefit over time and not just during the summer the games are held.


It's the classic Toronto inferiority complex. A very expensive way of putting us on the map. The way I see it, everyone in the world has heard of Toronto and those who haven't probably aren't the kind of people who make the world go round, anyway.

Again, I disagree. Does London have an inferiority complex? Chicago? Paris? Tokyo? Why do all these already well-known and established cities seek the games if there are no benefits? It's true that an added benefit for Toronto is exposure but I don't think we have to perceive this in a Sally Fields "They like me, they finally like me" kind of way. We all know that a revitalized Toronto with a spectacular waterfront will dazzle the world. Why wouldn't the benefits of that be huge?

For those promoting the perfectly valid opinion that "we don't need the Olympics to build the city".....I ask:

How is that working out so far?

Yes, in a nutshell that's it. We're fighting to get one subway line moved from the twenty-five year plan (and even then not likely) to a speedy fifteen-year plan. I just don't see the political will or culture at any levels of government for these sorts of major investments in Toronto, unfortunately!
 
The British taxpayer is being fleeced to pay for London's Games. The cost of the main stadium has risen from 280 million to 547 million Pounds, and Zaha Hadid's Flipperdome for water sports will now cost 251 million Pounds - to name but a couple of examples. Last month their government drew 461 million Pounds from the contingency fund because the private sector isn't interested in paying for two media centres and an athlete's village that now costs over a billion Pounds.
 
Again, I disagree. Does London have an inferiority complex? Chicago? Paris? Tokyo? Why do all these already well-known and established cities seek the games if there are no benefits? It's true that an added benefit for Toronto is exposure but I don't think we have to perceive this in a Sally Fields "They like me, they finally like me" kind of way. We all know that a revitalized Toronto with a spectacular waterfront will dazzle the world. Why wouldn't the benefits of that be huge?

I didn't say that all cities seek the Olympics to cure an inferiority complex, but that's apparently the case here in Toronto.

As for the waterfront, I'd rather that it undergo the kind of slow, organic process that creates neighbourhoods rather than have it littered with white elephant sports complexes.
 
If Chicago loses 2016, Toronto has a decent chance at 2020, but what if we decide to not bother after winning the Pan Am Games? Hence the gentle and positive nudge.

Just like we had a decent chance every other time we bid. It doesn't really mean much. I'm sure there will be some media darling cities putting in bids who may be the first in their continent (Africa, South America) which would totally overshadow Toronto, again.

The fact that Vancouver has the Olympics in 2010 doesn't help at all either.

The Olympics would be great for development in a sense. But it would have to be very well thought out. I have a hard time believing that would happen. I agree with Hipster Duck - I don't want an under-utilized, badly designed waterfront littered with little used sporting venues.
 
Just like we had a decent chance every other time we bid. It doesn't really mean much. I'm sure there will be some media darling cities putting in bids who may be the first in their continent (Africa, South America) which would totally overshadow Toronto, again.

The fact that Vancouver has the Olympics in 2010 doesn't help at all either.

Rogge was hinting that a games in the near future could be Toronto's to lose. Whether or not it's true or if he's just stoking our inferiority complex, the intended effect is the same...to get us to bid sooner rather than later if we decide to make do with or settle for the Pan Am Games. We can't win without bidding.

Vancouver hosting in 2010 doesn't necessarily hurt, either, since at least two cycles of summer/winter games will take place after 2010 before Toronto can possibly host. It's not like 1995-1996, when the US was preparing for two games simultaneously.
 

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