The debate about the sufficiency of park space will be significantly altered by the development that actually occurs at 88 Queen E. If this massive block includes public space, then there will be no need for something more here. But if it doesn't, or has inadequate space, I cannot see how one would argue that there is too much parkland in the area. While there may be a few junkies around now, the blocks around this church are about to explode with development. There seem to me to be very few if any other chances for parkland - save the massive 88 Queen lot. City building is for generations, centuries, and there are what, three or four parks east of Yonge and south of Gerrard? The area is one of the last bastions of parking lots in our city and if anyone thinks these won't be developed, that the area won't be thriving and going vertical, I'm not sure what the response would be - other than to show the evidence of the many proposals *already* in the pipeline. In 20 years when there are tens of thousands of additional residents living here, I strongly believe that a park will be needed. It doesn't have to be here - again I would accept a large public space at 88 Queen - but these seem to me to be among the last possibilities for creating more park/public space. Plus, a park completely surrounding a beautiful church just seems nice.

But are we just jawboning, or is there any real chance these plans could change?
 
agoraflaneur said:
But are we just jawboning, or is there any real chance these plans could change?
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This site is already zoned for high-rise development. Even if it wasn't, the site still wouldn't come cheap. City would need to buy it - either agreeing on a purchase price with the owner, or far more likely, expropriating it.
 
torontologist said:
Dare I say.... I think there is enough parkland in this neighbourhood.

I think some affordable housing units included in this development would do more good for the community than another park.
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I was going to say that there are quite a few parks in the area myself but was too scared to say so lol
 
agoraflaneur said:
I cannot see how one would argue that there is too much parkland in the area.
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There's a park in front of the church. Why another in the back?
 
On top of that, St. James Park and Moss Park within 5 minutes walk, the Allen Gardens about 8 minutes away... It would be great to see MP and AG get more use from nearby residents, and potentially more investment from the city.
 
Berczy, trinity, cloud gardens, the parks throughout ryerson. I'm not saying parks are bad, as a dog owner I think they are especially important. But I'm sure there are places that have less parks. Also I'd rather sit in a park not associated with a church or any other religious community/ structure.
 
Some good points, but I suppose this comes down to personal feeling and perspective. St. James Park and Allen Gardens are great. Moss Park, however, is simply a large baseball field with a few trees near the street. It is hardly a good park. Besides, while they may be relatively close, these other parks are small, and what I am arguing is that, with a huge influx of new residents, there are only a few opportunities for new parks. Today it may be fine. But with more people, some space is required. I think most agree that if 88 Queen doesn't have public space - not necessarily a park mind you - it will be a failure, and that is because it will add massive density to this area, which deserves some kind of magnet to draw people from Yonge and Dundas and give our city more loci of interest.

On the question of why there needs to be more park than there already is: well, the church is beautiful, and to have a park surround it is much more pleasing to me than either a parking lot or some generic, likely ugly if the previous renders are anything to go by, condo that will block the view and offer no reason for people to walk along Shuter. I do not like organized religion, so I do prefer city spaces, but I believe that we have gone far enough past our religious foes to recognize aesthetic beauty when it exists, free from the oppressive history of petty religiosity. To have trees surround the historical buildings (and we would have had more if they had not already been torn down), with skyline vistas all around and a sense of openness in what will be a sea of density, would simply be nice.
 
No it doesn't, not really. The parking lot looms in your vista from almost every angle. Plus, the picturesque scene I described above absolutely won't exist when an ugly slab is thrown up behind it, which is really what I was speaking about - the future, not the present. It will be a park with a nice church dwarfed by horrible second rate architecture. (Edit: not that I won't come to love it, this being Toronto)
 
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The church and existing space ruined by a crappy build is definitely a concern. It should definitely compliment but I know that's asking too much
 
One unfortunate byproduct of the approved scheme will be loss of the relationship between the Metropolitan Church and St. Michael's Cathedral, urbanistically speaking. This relationship shows clearly in early photographs as does the lush landscaping on all sides of the Metropolitan site.
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Looks like something from Vaughan, Markham or Mississauga took off and landed in downtown Toronto by accident....horrible!!
 
With 88 Queen up for a complete development, and Mutual Street to become highrise canyon, there is definitely a need for more park space in this part of town, and I really don't get why people say we have enough park space. That's ridiculous. You want to build another (craptacular, in this case) highrise because your're afraid of junkies?

The City of Toronto has millions of dollars of unspent funds for parkland acquisition. I can't think of many opportunities in this part of town to do so, unless we could, somehow, kick the armoury out at Moss Park and expand that park.
 
ShonTron said:
With 88 Queen up for a complete development, and Mutual Street to become highrise canyon, there is definitely a need for more park space in this part of town, and I really don't get why people say we have enough park space. That's ridiculous. You want to build another (craptacular, in this case) highrise because your're afraid of junkies?

The City of Toronto has millions of dollars of unspent funds for parkland acquisition. I can't think of many opportunities in this part of town to do so, unless we could, somehow, kick the armoury out at Moss Park and expand that park.
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Kicking out the armoury would be the best scenario as it is the best eyesore for both Queen East and Jarvis. If the city wants to build more parks, there are plenty of surface parking on both sides of Church street available for acquisition. I walked there yesterday and the number still frustrates me. But again let's have some decent sized on where at least a small dog can run for a couple of minutes, not those miniscule parkettes which pass as urban parks. Expanding Moss Park northward sounds great too. The area along Pembroke between George and Sherbourne south of Dundas is downright scary. There are few nice house but anything comes at a cost. As we all know, downtown east is experiencing a construction boom and in a few years, it might be too late to consider adding any parks.
 
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