Mongo said:
The people at the Southcore Delta hotel must be conflicted about this. On the one hand, an expanded convention centre plus a large casino would bring in plenty of additional people to the immediate area. On the other hand, another hotel on top of the casino will draw some of those people away from the Delta hotel. .
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Could it also spur the removal of the Skydome hotel and refurbishment of the stadium? A lot of 'ball folk are clamouring for a change to the park to make it more 'Baseball' and optionally changing the north end of the site (garish 'Drunk Tank' anyone?) may help in revitalizing the stadium just as it hits the 30 year mark.
 
Fedplanner:


Details of the project provided by Oxford:

11 acres with 7.35 million square feet (SF) of master planned mixed-use development

Elements:
* 1.1 million SF of Convention Centre
* 2.5 million SF of Office
* 1 million SF of Retail
* 600,000 SF of Residential
* 450,000 SF of Casino and Amenity Space
* 1.7 million SF of Hotel and Amenity Space
* 4,000 Parking Stalls On-Site
* 5.5 acres of public parkland, cooperating with neighboring stakeholders

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/1...n-casino-condo-proposal-for-downtown-toronto/
 
This may be a misguided opinion... thankfully there is fierce competition between hotels in the city. The larger supply of hotel rooms, the lower prices, the better for consumers, and the more tourist that spend their money in Toronto.
 
fedplanner said:
This may be a misguided opinion... thankfully there is fierce competition between hotels in the city. The larger supply of hotel rooms, the lower prices, the better for consumers, and the more tourist that spend their money in Toronto.
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I'm just lost at why downtown? Here is an opportunity to build or revitalize another destination in the city or do something truly unique. This is just a wasted opportunity IMO.
 
The only thing I'm against is the casino element. What a pity that such a project hinges on that.
 
A prediction: the casino will win the day, and the Toronto The Good moralists will just go away.

And, on reflection: yes, the downtown area is definitely moving westward, in an elegant way, with this and the Mirvish proposal. Let's hope that the Toronto economy holds and that all of this stuff actually happens. I especially like the contributions from outside architects, moving us away from the absolutely rectilinear stuff we've been getting in Toronto.

A wish: that the casino profits could be put directly into Toronto transit. But Ontario will step in the way of such a transit funding solution, of course.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
* 1.1 million SF of Convention Centre
* 2.5 million SF of Office
* 1 million SF of Retail
* 600,000 SF of Residential
* 450,000 SF of Casino and Amenity Space
* 1.7 million SF of Hotel and Amenity Space
* 4,000 Parking Stalls On-Site
* 5.5 acres of public parkland, cooperating with neighboring stakeholders
Click to expand...

Would this be the largest development by floor area in Toronto history? The next largest that I can think of off the top of my head would be the TD Centre development at a little over 4 million SF of office space, this would be almost twice that in total. What is the total area of the Cityplace development?
 
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I'm slightly more against casinos than for them. Slightly. Except if they're in Monaco. That said, if you're going to put a casino in the city, this is a good way to do it.
If the casino was plunked down out at the Ex or at Ontario Place, it would be a bad move - a more or less stand-alone entity with the feared sea of parking around it.
In this plan, the Casino will be less conspicuously integrated into a much larger complex. Also, the buildings and facilities around it - the convention centre, the CN Tower, The Rogers Centre Skydome, The Aquarium - are physically large enough to balance it out. Also, the sheer amount of people that will be travelling to all the different attractions in this one block will make the casino patrons just a regular part of the crowd, and not a predominant group.
The triangulated towers look as thought they're easily eight hundred feet high.

On the upside: Norman Foster, what looks like the straightforward and improved entrance from Front the CN Tower has always needed, good green space at the base of the tower. A park in front of the Rogers Centre Skydome?! A new kind of building wall facing Front Street.

On the downside: The John Street bridge looks like it's gone, the Fastwurms art installation at the original Convention centre entrance might not survive, the garden corner at Bremner and Simcoe looks to be vanished. A new kind of building wall facing Front Street.

Given the scale of the project, I'm not sure why the casino would have to anchor it - shouldn't the project be confident enough on it's own? Is it to be done all at once, or in stages? I wouldn't want to see the park over the tracks get sacrificed, nor what looks like the stepdowns to an improved CN Tower base.

Lots of questions. Overall, I think it's a bold, fresh move, so far. It'll be interesting to see how it looks as more detailed plans and renderings come up. Dear Gawd, please let the CN Tower get some proper access and entries for a change.

This proposal might absorb some of the urbane shock over the Gehry/Mirvish proposal, and give it some scale to reference, as well.
It looks like downtown continues to consolidate west of Yonge.
 
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themarc said:
I'm just lost at why downtown? Here is an opportunity to build or revitalize another destination in the city or do something truly unique. This is just a wasted opportunity IMO.
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Care to elaborate? What not build a hotel here as part of the revitalization. Surely there is demand, and it will bring people to an area that's kinda dead IMHO. When I visit Toronto, I don't want to be in a suburban area. I want to be downtown, as close as possible to the action as my price point will permit.

I'm thinking you're probably talking about the casino portion. Millions of square feet of mixed use development and a new park by decking over the atrocious railway tracks is a fair trade off IMHO.
 
The park over the rail corridor definitely opens up some interesting pedestrian connectivity possibilities with the SkyWalk and access to the Rogers Centre.

Right now the north concourse in front of the Rogers Centre is squeezed in between the rail corridor and the building, and you actually have to walk through the hotel drop-off loop to go from Gate 1 to Gate 14. Hopefully the park will be on the same level, so that can act as an expanded concourse.

Overall I'm very excited for this project, but like others have mentioned on here, I fear that many of the "morality guides" will only see CASINO, and be completely blind to everything else that this project offers.
 
Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

What are people's thoughts on how this development (specifically the casino) may or may not cannibalize tourism in other parts of the city? Will we see tourists who never venture outside the casino/CN Tower/Aquarium area, leaving the ROM, AGO, Chinatown etc. in the lurch?
 
Wow. I WANT THIS!

I've visited iconic buildings around the world and in no place can I remember a more over-promised/under-delivered, disconnected, bland looking arrival than when you reach the foot of the CN Tower. Last Summer I was laying in the park near the Eiffel Tower and I was day dreaming about having such a place to contemplate the CN Tower. If nothing else happened but those Foster Twin Towers and the rail deck park, I'd be a very happy Torontonian.

Given that those two towers are office and condo (both are in high demand at that location) and the land is already zoned appropriately, I think they're likely to go ahead. I sure hope this isn't just a preliminary drawing and that those towers will go through more or less unchanged.

As for decking over the rails, the experience with the CityPlace bridge doesn't bode well for the prospects of this happening. CN are uncompromising old farts. It's like they're from the railroad era... Oh wait. :rolleyes:

So lets hear it from you guys:

What are the odds of each component following through and being built?

...aaaand go!
 
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