[TOareaFan]

The paper says that she said that, why are you splitting hairs?

This is a journalistic method of interpreting/paraphrasing.....and I am not even saying they are "lying" but there is a broad range of what could have been interpreted as her saying it is not meant to be public transit. It is being heard, by many, as a "let them eat cake comment" when it could have been something like (in response to why is the train priced higher than the existing public transit option) "unlike the current public transit option, this is different and it designed to be"...or something like that.

The reason there is no quote around the words "was not meant to be transit" is likely because she never said that....but said something that could be interpreted/extrapolated with the realm of reasonableness by a journalist to support them printing that. Again, it is very much like the $20-$30 thing.....she/they have never said that.....but I heard her on a radio station being interviewed about that....in her opening comments she noted that ML never said that.....every time the interviewer mentioned it she reminded them this is not ML's position on pricing......by the end of the interview the interviewer reworded the question to be are other services around the world that price...she said yes some are.....then the "can you promise this one won't"...obviously she can't....so the rest of the morning their news on started with "ML won't deny $30 fares on UPe"......by the afternoon drive home, same station was reporting "fares will be $30"....but they couldn't directly quote her...because she never said it.

It is not splitting hairs, it is showing a basic understanding of how journalism works....if Ms Adkins ever said to a journalist "this is not public transit" I assure you they would run with that quote....in very bold letters.

 

[rbt]

The province needs to push the jobs/business investment angle.

Yes, the train is for executives but more importantly it's for money/investment flowing into Toronto from other locations to downtown Toronto. Push the future tax revenue angle.

Someone must have done an ROI calculation by now.

 

[TOareaFan]

The province needs to push the jobs/business investment angle.

Yes, the train is for executives but more importantly it's for money/investment flowing into Toronto from other locations to downtown Toronto.

Maybe my company is different than others....I don't know.....but our executives seldom travel for work.....middle managers are zipping across the country on any given day....but the execs more often than not are sitting in their offices.

 

[jamincan]

So this is a train for people travelling for work; it's hardly surprising that would be the target demographic since it is connecting the CBD to the airport. I know my company wouldn't blink an eye at me expensing a $30 train ride and I'm hardly very high on the totem pole. I can definitely see this being the preferred mode for business travellers heading downtown; the benefit to the city in facilitating this is easy to see as well.

 

[rbt]

Maybe my company is different than others....I don't know.....but our executives seldom travel for work.....middle managers are zipping across the country on any given day....but the execs more often than not are sitting in their offices.

While that's true, the few trips they do make tend to be money related.

Here's the thing. Someone flies in on their personal 737 to meet with owners of a $2B business located in Toronto. After landing at Pearson (only local airport taking large private jets; such as what AT&T or Google executives fly in) they get into a limo and possibly sit in traffic for an hour.

At some point, they're going to wonder if congestion is having a negative impact on the business they're looking and lower their expected ROI; not to mention being royally pissed off if it takes 2 hours from Pearson to downtown which can happen on occasion.

When single individuals are making decisions that can impact Ontario revenues by $50M/year or more. Things like this train become important as a sales pitch in favour of the city. Free-flowing HOV lanes that airport limos can use is another solution, but probably 5x the cost. Hell, HongKong has chopper service from their airport to the financial district in addition to the airport train; it seats 5 and costs $2300 CAD total. A few high-end hotels (like the Peninsula) have regularly used chopper pads (don't expect much mid-day sleep at the Sheraton across the street).

 

[TOareaFan]

While that's true, the few trips they do make tend to be money related.

Here's the thing. Someone flies in on their personal 737 to meet with owners of a $2B business located in Toronto. After landing at Pearson (only local airport taking large private jets; such as what AT&T or Google executives fly in) they get into a limo and possibly sit in traffic for an hour.

At some point, they're going to wonder if congestion is having a negative impact on the business they're looking at and lower their expected ROI; not to mention being royally pissed off if it takes 2 hours from Pearson to down-town which can happen on occasion.

When single individuals are making decisions that can impact Ontario revenues by $50M/year or more. Things like this train become important as a sales pitch in favour of the city. Free-flowing HOV lanes that airport limos can use is another solution, but probably 5x the cost.

I support the train (well, my original opposition to it has morphed into acceptance of its purpose/model is a more accurate statement)....I am just suggesting that far more business trips (that this is geared to ) are made by middle managers and even technical type folks than by "executives".

 

[EnviroTO]

The current Airport Express bus from downtown, see link, has the following fare:

The UP Express should be lower.

That statement makes no sense. Infrastructure costs are higher, staffing costs higher, value to customer is greater, etc. By what measure should it be cheaper. I'm hoping for a similar price, perhaps with greater volume discounts and with greater discounts for families.

 

[rbt]

I support the train (well, my original opposition to it has morphed into acceptance of its purpose/model is a more accurate statement)....I am just suggesting that far more business trips (that this is geared to ) are made by middle managers and even technical type folks than by "executives".

Oh yeah, definitely for rider count.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The UP Express train has only one downtown location, Union Station. The Airport Express bus currently (for the time being) has six downtown locations, from this link:

depart every 40 minutes from the following locations:

• Bond Place Hotel
• Westin Harbour Castle
• Intercontinental Hotel (Fairmont Royal York, Union Station, The Strathcona Hotel)
• Sheraton Centre
• Eaton Chelsea
• Bus Terminal (Elizabeth St & Edward St.)
• Double Tree by Hilton (formally Metropolitan Hotel), U of T Residence
• Hyatt Regency, Hilton Garden Inn, Canadiana Backpackers (Northwest corner of King St. and Peter St. in front of Shoppers Drug Mart)

Therefore, the UP Express should have a lower cost, because it is less convenient to those who do not the hotels next door to Union Station.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

In other news...
UP mainline testing is going to take place for two months starting on September 14th until November 15th. Two full crews will be allocated exclusively for testing and scheduled to work every day of the week. Testing is to take place primarily during the day but at least a couple weeks will be dedicated solely for evening/night runs.

 

[TOareaFan]

The UP Express train has only one downtown location, Union Station. The Airport Express bus currently (for the time being) has six downtown locations, from this link:



Therefore, the UP Express should have a lower cost, because it is less convenient to those who do not the hotels next door to Union Station.

or since it leaves every 15 minutes rather than every 40 minutes, you can still save time cause there are a lot of hotels that are not adjacent to Union that are less than 25 minutes from it....and then the travel time to Pearson is a lot less!

 

[Long Island Mike]

UPE Fares: There needs to be a "Balance"...

The question is, why in Toronto it is this expensive while other cities can offer more affordable prices?

Let's not compare with London or Chicago. The Leonardo express in Rome charges 14 euros, or $20, and or $16 if you buy 10. That's a more reasonable price I'd love to pay. The airport is 35km from central Rome, even farther away than Pearson.

If the price ends up high than $25 closer to $30, that's just absolutely insane. I don't care about group/family/senior/student discounts. That's just distraction pretending it is not as expensive. Yes the price is not announced, but people didn't get angry based on nothing. There were sources indicating it would be very unlikely to be under $20, and plus if it were affordable, Metrolinks should have dispel the rumours a long time ago (something like "we are still finalizing the price but it won't likely be that unaffordable." I am glad there is such outrage because it give them the pressure to lower the price as much as they can.

KS: I agree with you concerning UPE fares...They need to be at a level and strike a "balance" between the Airport-Downtown Toronto
market and be reasonable enough to attract Airport commuters - those who work at YYZ and use transit...

Philadelphia to me has the perfect "balance" on their Airport Regional Rail Line in which there is a somewhat high fare between Center
City Philadelphia and PHL International for one-way riders but these trains also accept ALL of SEPTA's Weekly and Monthly Trans and Trail
Passes as a incentive for Airport workers to commute and for regular SEPTA RRD commuters from other routes to use the line with a
transfer in Central Philadelphia...As a added incentive Airport-bound trains run through CCP from other rail routes - the West Trenton
and Warminster Lines most often...If GO Transit Rail offered equivalent service to YYZ trains would run through from Oshawa,Stouffville
and Richmond Hill at regular intervals...The PHL Airport Line offers half-hourly service from early morning to late night 7 days a week...

What I hope does NOT happen is to set UPE Express fares too high to attract too limited a market...LI MIKE

 

[dowlingm]

Perhaps the hotels will consider a Porter shuttle type service to circulate and bring people to/from Union, or to contribute to UPX southbound fares to be considered inclusive to the TTC ride, and do something useful with the money being collected from the "optional" tourism charge on hotel bills.

Would also be nice to see GTAA and GO agree on GO coach service between Union and Pearson between October 31 and UPX opening day.

 

[Jag202]

In other news...
UP mainline testing is going to take place for two months starting on September 14th until November 15th. Two full crews will be allocated exclusively for testing and scheduled to work every day of the week. Testing is to take place primarily during the day but at least a couple weeks will be dedicated solely for evening/night runs.

Does this mean the new tracks and signalling plants are close to completion? Last time I went down there it was still the single CTC main with all other installations inoperable.

 

[smallspy]

Does this mean the new tracks and signalling plants are close to completion? Last time I went down there it was still the single CTC main with all other installations inoperable.

The new tracks, signals and interlocking installations are being tested and put online one-by-one as they are completed.

The rolling stock needs to be tested regardless of the fixed plant, however, and so it will be tested everywhere else on the GO system.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.