They talked about that briefly in the Metrolinx board meeting, they were talking about a solution in the $500 million range. It ain't going to be a cheap fix to do. I think it involves expanding the land into the lake and constructing a rail overpass.
 
First Union-Pearson Express trains arrive in Toronto

20140924-UPE-Train-Alt.jpg


Over the next six weeks, the trains will be tested on the Lake Shore, Kitchener, and Barrie GO transit lines during off-peak hours, Metrolinx says. The remaining 16 trains in the order will be similarly evaluated once they are delivered from Japan.

The pair currently undergoing testing were shipped over the Pacific from Toyohashi, Japan to Savannah, Georgia via the Panama Canal. The trains then traveled on a flatbed rail car to Toronto via Chicago, a total of more than 20,000 kms from the point of origin.

The line is due to be fully operational by the spring of 2015.
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http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/09/first_union-pearson_express_trains_arrive_in_toronto/
 

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Markster said:
Surely their comment was not explicitly stating that they needed to triple-track all the way to Kitchener? Mount Pleasant, for sure, but I can't imagine that they need it tripled beyond Georgetown, when they own the line, and dictate the schedules.
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If you are going to do it right, then there needs to be 4 tracks where possible from Georgetown to Bramalea. I call for 4 tracks in the early 2000's when the EA was being done to add a 2nd track to the single track line. It was approved as a twin track, but became 3 tracks during the construction stage.

If this line going to be High Speed to London, Georgetown to Kitchener needs to be 3 tracks.

As it stands today, Georgetown to Mount Pleasant is 2 tracks and 3 from the station going east to just before the Orangeville crossing. Not sure if you can get a 4th track in at the Mount Pleasant Station and need to revisited it, but it look like only 3 when it was being built. A few overpasses will have to be rebuilt to get 4 tracks in.

It is 2 tracks from the Orangeville crossing to the east side of Queen St and can be expanded to 3. From the east side of Queen St to Bramalea, it is 3 tracks and can be expanded to 4 tracks.

You need to build a Fly-under at Bramalea to get from the Weston Sub to the north side if Metrolinx wants to keep it lines separated from CN. Down side are the platforms at Brampton and Mount Pleasant since they are on both side. You could run trains on the outside of the 3/4 tracks and leave the centre 1/2 tracks for CN.

At Georgetown, you need to build 2 more bridges over the Port Credit River and I believe they built the extra wide pier support for 1/2 new tracks when they built the 2nd track on the north side a few years ago. If you want to keep the 2 new tracks as well maintaining the current stations, then the outside tracks will be for VIA and GO and will require a Fly-under for the #4 south track to connect to the Guelph Sub so there is no interference with CN west of the station.

It is also time to look at building a new station and layover for Georgetown that been talked about for years.
 
nfitz said:
Good news - but wasn't this already announced (with less detail) in the spring budget?
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Announced that it was their intent.

I assume this is an announcement that the deal has closed (title actually transferred, payment actually made).
 
innsertnamehere said:
They talked about that briefly in the Metrolinx board meeting, they were talking about a solution in the $500 million range. It ain't going to be a cheap fix to do. I think it involves expanding the land into the lake and constructing a rail overpass.
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Oh wow I need to watch that video again...thanks for the info. Yeah there really is no other way into Hamilton (aside from maybe branching off the CN line through Dundas then back along the old TH & B corridor, which would probably be even more expensive.)
 
mpd618 said:
Of CN's 13 miles between Georgetown and Bramalea, half is double-tracked and half is already triple-tracked. It only has four grade crossings. It's 28 minutes currently.

Virtually all of the 33 miles between Kitchener and Georgetown are single track, with very few sidings. There are nearly 30 grade crossings. It's 59 minutes currently.

I think it's safe to say that for Kitchener to get good (frequent and decent speed) rail service, a lot more of the infrastructure upgrades are going to need to happen on the portion that Metrolinx just purchased, versus CN's portion.
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Assuming your time and distances are correct:

13 mi = 20.9 km ; 33 mi = 53.1 km

Kitchener - Georgetown: 20.9 / (28/60) = 45 km/h

Georgetown - Bramalea: 53.1 / (59/60) = 54 km/h

These are all average speeds. I think it's a fair claim to say that infrastructure upgrades could squeeze out that much extra average speed.

I confess, I just wanted to do the math.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
Assuming your time and distances are correct:

13 mi = 20.9 km ; 33 mi = 53.1 km

Kitchener - Georgetown: 20.9 / (28/60) = 45 km/h

Georgetown - Bramalea: 53.1 / (59/60) = 54 km/h

These are all average speeds. I think it's a fair claim to say that infrastructure upgrades could squeeze out that much extra average speed.

I confess, I just wanted to do the math.
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I love this kind of math. Here's a similar calculation I did to compare the London-Kitchener-Toronto VIA services to other similar segments in southern Ontario and Québec. The result is not surprising: the Guelph subdivision is pathetic even by Canadian railway standards.

3vJYjy.png


Some highlights:
- Belleville & Napanee, and London & St. Marys are both 35 km apart, yet the former takes 18 minutes and the latter takes 48 minutes.
- It takes 30 minutes to travel 22km from Kitchener to Guelph. Elsewhere in the province, this distance is covered in around 13 minutes.
 
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I'm guessing with "proper" speeds on the corridor the current 116 minute trip to union could be made in around 70? (if you make it express from Mt. Pleasant)
 
innsertnamehere said:
I'm guessing with "proper" speeds on the corridor the current 116 minute trip to union could be made in around 70? (if you make it express from Mt. Pleasant)
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My estimate came out to 72 minutes assuming intermediate stops in Guelph, Georgetown, Brampton, Pearson Junction and Mount Dennis. It was based on average speeds for similar services and stop spacings in the Corridor and Northeast Corridor and assumed that a new 200km/h line is built from Guelph to Georgetown. Though looking over the math now, I have somewhat less confidence in my statistical methods at the time (the work was from many years ago). Maybe I'll redo it on the weekend.

Also, the current GO Trains take longer than 116 min:
5:44 - 7:53 (129 min)
7:02 - 9:08 (124 min)
16:45 - 18:52 (127 min)
17:45 - 19:52 (127 min)

My estimate for the new express trains in 2016 is around 100 minutes (1h40 - same time and speed as the Barrie line).
 
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Last week I took a train from Bloor to Etobicoke North. I haven't been on the Kitchener Line before, however the trains seemed to move rather slow compared to the Lakeshore lines. Is that going to improve once the construction is over?
 
yes. Speeds will jump up to match the lakeshore line, with 90mph outside of the tunnels and 70mph inside of the tunnels. (Weston, Junction, and Strachan)
 
innsertnamehere said:
yes. Speeds will jump up to match the lakeshore line, with 90mph outside of the tunnels and 70mph inside of the tunnels. (Weston, Junction, and Strachan)
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To clarify: the speed limit will increase to 80 mph (128 km/h) from Union to Weston, and 90 mph (145 km/h) from Weston to Pearson Junction.

The Weston tunnel will have a speed limit of 75 mph (121 km/h) and the West Toronto Diamond will have a speed limit of 70 mph (113 km/h). I think the Strachan underpass will have a 55 mph (89 km/h) limit.

salsa said:
What's the reason that speeds are lower in the tunnels?
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The tunnels have limited speed due to the grade and vertical curvature on their ramps.
 
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