[nfitz]

i don't know why they're leaving the CP tracks out of the trench. they will have to relocate them in some sections anyway to make room for the blue 22 tracks. they should put all the 6 tracks in the trench and remove the rail bridge (lawrence underpass) at lawrence avenue west. what an opportunity to do things right.

I think the reason is that if they were to lower it, the grade would be too steep for the CP tracks heading to the north, without spending more money. But it does seem very short-sited, particularily as there will be GO service on the CP tracks heading to Bolton.

 

[unimaginative2]

Absolutely, Enviro. Perfectly said.

 

[catcher_of_cats]

Absolutely, Enviro. Perfectly said.

Seconded.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Sure, the make-believe money is cheaper and cheaper, what's a few hundred million more?

 

[EnviroTO]

Sure, the make-believe money is cheaper and cheaper, what's a few hundred million more?

It won't be cheaper to do later when the corridor is full of operational tracks. At some point all the current structures require maintenance. At some point something will need to be done at St.Clair to fix the bottleneck. The traffic on the CP line will only grow over time. In the corridor as planned there will already be three places where the corridor will be newly depressed, eight new structures, 9 widened structures between the Weston golf club and downtown, and more than double the number the amount of tracks that exist today. This is already a huge project.

It is worth pausing waterfront projects, the Eglinton line, and various other city, provincial, and federal spending to direct it to this project because doing this piecemeal is more expensive in the long run. If this is the project that is getting done now then this is the project we should focus on getting done right.

If we build a rollercoaster of a line now and increase the width of dingy underpasses across the city then that is what we will be stuck with forever. With the effort being made to eliminate the elevated Gardner why are we allowing the expansion of a 6 to 8 track equivalent that runs through the heart of west Toronto? There will never be a better time to work on this project and get it done right. Never.

 

[EnviroTO]

There is one other thing that seems pretty obvious to me. GO and Blue22 haven't bought the equipment yet that will provide the increased services on the line. The economic case for electrification in the future will be significantly reduced if GO and Blue22 already have a fleet of non-electric trains plying the route. Most trains and locomotives last 18 years or so at least so the economic case for electrification on the line now is better than it will ever be in the future considering fleet purchasing decisions and the fact it is easier to install wiring on railway tracks that have just been laid and don't have traffic yet. The next opportunity for electrification in the corridor is likely beyond 2030.

 

[Automation Gallery]

The next opportunity for electrification in the corridor is likely beyond 2030.

Its to bad but i think they are talking 15-20 years for electification which would be anywhere from 2025-2030. Even India which has a huge rail system but outdated has electrified 17,810 kilometres (11,067 mi) of rail in the last 24months. Maybe Metrolinx can buy some surplus Diesel Locomotives off them for a bargain price and save some money.

 

[RedRocket191]

Its to bad but i think they are talking 15-20 years for electification which would be anywhere from 2025-2030. Even India which has a huge rail system but outdated has electrified 17,810 kilometres (11,067 mi) of rail in the last 24months. Maybe Metrolinx can buy some surplus Diesel Locomotives off them for a bargain price and save some money.

Let me clear this up:

Electrification within 15 years of today. 2025 firm.

That's what the plan says.

 

[EnviroTO]

Let me clear this up:

Electrification within 15 years of today. 2025 firm.

That's what the plan says.

What current politician will still be in charge in 2025 and in 2025 GO will have a fleet of diesel locomotives plying the line and Blue22 will have diesel dayliners. They can say anything about what will happen in 2025 but unless they are putting the money into an account and signing a contract now the promise isn't worth anything.

 

[RedRocket191]

They can say anything about what will happen in 2025 but unless they are putting the money into an account and signing a contract now the promise isn't worth anything.

But you could argue that about anything, can't you?

New streetcar orders comes to mind...

 

[EnviroTO]

But you could argue that about anything, can't you?

New streetcar orders comes to mind...

No, streetcars are a whole different story. A streetcar order is pretty much guaranteed. The existing fleet will not last forever and as soon as new tracks get laid as part of Transit City there will be a need to have new vehicles. There is no such requirement for electrification. Nobody will get elected or unelected on an electrification question. Politicians would be severely punished if a whole network of streetcar lines were laid and there were no vehicles to run on them. I really don't see how these two things are even remotely similar.

 

[RedRocket191]

The similarities are in the funding. There is no "money in an account" for new streetcars at this time. By your argument, the promise of new streetcars is not worth anything because we need money in an account AND a signed contract.

All I'm saying is that I don't think that "I don't trust that they will be able to deliver" is a valid argument because it's too subjective and you can argue it about anything.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

The similarities are in the funding. There is no "money in an account" for new streetcars at this time. By your argument, the promise of new streetcars is not worth anything because we need money in an account AND a signed contract.

All I'm saying is that I don't think that "I don't trust that they will be able to deliver" is a valid argument because it's too subjective and you can argue it about anything.

new streetcars have to be bought if you want to continue having service whereas electrification doesn't have to be implemented because service can continue the way it is with diesel locomotives.

 

[RedRocket191]

new streetcars have to be bought if you want to continue having service whereas electrification doesn't have to be implemented because service can continue the way it is with diesel locomotives.

It doesn't matter what it is... The point is in my post.

 

[Automation Gallery]

The similarities are in the funding. There is no "money in an account" for new streetcars at this time. By your argument, the promise of new streetcars is not worth anything because we need money in an account AND a signed contract.

We are always talking money and how Toronto never has any, A while back
New York City was going to declare bankruptcy, but it was bailed out by a federally-backed loan. Maybe it is time for our city politicians to plan or do something similar. Torontonians cant go on listening to the same broken record year after year.