waterloowarrior
Senior Member
email I just got from Metrolinx...
Below is a summary of key themes from the February Open Houses:
Below is a summary of key themes from the February Open Houses:
DSCToronto
Superstar
Details are at: http://www.metrolinx.com/gsse/default.aspx
TOareaFan
Superstar
^thanks for that.
This part baffles me a bit.
Every time I look at the tracks as they cross King Street on that wide bridge I think wow...how easy would it be to put a platform there, (there is no curve on the bridge) some stairs at each end of the bridge (giving people access to, both, the south side and north side of King..without the expense of tunnels that most stations need)....rent a bit of space (not much) in the adjacent office building for a ticket office (ie. no construction cost).....and start the thing off as a special event stop (not sure if it is still the case but I remember as a kid certain trips on the Lakeshore line only stopped at Exhibition if there was an event) to try it out...in my mind a low cost test to see if there is demand on Milton and Georgetown to use the train to the Indy (is it still called that?)...TFC.....the Marlies......trade/horse shows.....concerts at the ampitheatre.
This part baffles me a bit.
Every time I look at the tracks as they cross King Street on that wide bridge I think wow...how easy would it be to put a platform there, (there is no curve on the bridge) some stairs at each end of the bridge (giving people access to, both, the south side and north side of King..without the expense of tunnels that most stations need)....rent a bit of space (not much) in the adjacent office building for a ticket office (ie. no construction cost).....and start the thing off as a special event stop (not sure if it is still the case but I remember as a kid certain trips on the Lakeshore line only stopped at Exhibition if there was an event) to try it out...in my mind a low cost test to see if there is demand on Milton and Georgetown to use the train to the Indy (is it still called that?)...TFC.....the Marlies......trade/horse shows.....concerts at the ampitheatre.
Whoaccio
Senior Member
Yea. sorry for the confusion. TOareaFan got it right. I don't think NIMBYism is a left-wing occurrence, just that this particular instance of NIMBYism was draped in a way that made it blend in with the bulk of the transit community which is apparently vulnerable to claims of "community coalitions" being superseded by "corporate interests" and, god forbid, profit motivations. Though HD is also right that, even if this used left wing rhetoric, the WCC has what might be the most bourgeois motivation of maintaining private property values.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
I'm a bit disappointed too, but don't forget there's going to be like 8 tracks through the corridor at that point.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Yeah there are...but it just does not seem that hard to me to have a simple platform at, say, the far west side of the track....and make sure that GO trains that are planning to stop at my envisioned "special event 'Liberty Village'" station would make sure they are on the track nearest that platform.
with the ability to have a ticket office elsewhere (nearby but elsewhere) and stairs leading to both sides of King....I can't think of anywhere that a cheaper solution to a problem exists on the GO network.
I think, sometimes, they have a locked in vision of what a station/stop is....if they can't build a replica of Bramalea they don't build anything...I think this Liberty Village stop has the potential to make a small, incremental improvement at very minimal cost.
DavidH
Senior Member
Can anyone translate the second sentence into real-world terms? Does this mean that there is a possibility that the airport link may be a GO service, or are we simply talking about the private sector operation running on GO tracks?
adma
Superstar
And look at it this way; when WCC concerns bleed into opposition to "urban intensification" along Weston Rd, it *really* starts looking a little Stintz-ian bourgeois...
nfitz
Superstar
typo - fixed. It's $300 million (I'd say only $300 million, but that's 5-times more expensive than some of the new Spadina line subway stations - and that isn't the total price, just an add-on.
That makes no sense ... if the track through the existing station is buried, they wouldn't have to rebuild the station??? So what do they do, just stand on any empty platform waiting for a train that never comes? I guess it would speed up travel times.
No one has said that a pedestrian crossing wouldn't have wheelchair access. Good grief, have you seen any recent pedestrian crossings of railway tracks that WEREN'T wheelchair accessible?
Besides, I think it is a waste of money to put a pedestrian crossing at John Street when there will already be a crossing about 175 metres away at King Street; 175 metres - that's merely the length of a subway platform. No other part of Toronto get's a 175-metre spacing of railway crossings. 400 to 1000 metres is typical elsewhere. Why do you think Weston deserves such special treatment?
How about the negative impact from a bunch of selfish Nimbys delaying the upgrades to the Georgetown GO corridor for years; funding was announced in 2003, and not a cent has been spent, except to placate whiny Westoners in meeting after meeting. I'm sick and fuddle-duddling tired of having to drive to cities along that corridor, because there is not yet proper GO service - all because of actions of a small minority, who at this stage I can only consider urban terrorists.
Confusion because the station moves? Now that just has to be the silliest excuse yet. Perhaps you are suggesting that no one in Weston will be aware of this? ROTFLMAO. Next thing you'll be telling us is that the project can't go ahead, because the poor raccoons will be disorientated by not having to cross all the railway tracks.
Obviously I'm joking about bulldozing. However you have shown a massive amount of disrespect to your fellow Toronto citizens, and a massive lack of experience around planning, city building and community building.
Yes, I'm bitter that a group of people who have been holding the rest of us hostage for the last half a decade, have turned out to be nothing but Nimbys, as there demands for concessions, have gone from somewhat understandable and reasonable; to completely off the wall, with the complaints about trains every 5-minutes and noise. Every 5-minutes ... you should live backing against the subway line, like some other Torontonians do; there's a train every 90 seconds in rush-hour now ... and it supposed to go to every 45-seconds in a few years.
They seem to be ... but at this stage, I think it is merely an attempt to jack up the price of the project to make it unrealistic. I have no doubt that had electrification been in the proposal, they would be jumping up and going on about the cancer risks of the electrical lines.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
Whatever happens in the Weston corridor has repercussions on rail traffic everywhere west on that line. Also, whatever funds are spent for rail improvements in Weston are funds not spent on rail improvements elsewhere. While I can understand Westonites' concerns, and while many of them are entirely valid, there needs to be a greater sense of civic responsibility.
We've already wasted enough time in the planning stage of too many infrastructure projects and it is about time these projects go ahead as soon as possible under the recommendation of transportation planners and not become bogged down by politics and lobby groups.
We've already wasted enough time in the planning stage of too many infrastructure projects and it is about time these projects go ahead as soon as possible under the recommendation of transportation planners and not become bogged down by politics and lobby groups.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
And this is why we have the streamlined transportation assessment process.
Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
some of the comments i've read in this thread border the absurd. why anyone would want raze an entire community based on the thread post of one person seems very old testament to me.
if you want to blame anyone for slowing down GO transit improvements, blame the people who joined the blue22 and GO improvements together.
and if you want to talk about nimbyism, i've met a few people from the weston area who support the blue 22 and its original plan to close down all the side streets because they believe it would have kept the low income people and "crack heads" on the west side of the tracks, separated from the supposed affluent people . these people viewed it as a possibility to have a gated community.
as for self interest, of course. who cares? would you criticize michael J fox for self interest because he suffers a disease and it's the only reason why he might have got involved in stem cell advocacy? would you criticize me for wanting elevators and accessibility throughout as self interest? sometimes you don't realize there's problem or advocate to resolve a problem until it effects you. yes, you can call it self interest if you want but the benefits can help other people in the process.
since this corridor is going to be overhauled, this is an opportunity for electrification. all rail lines in toronto should be electrified eventually. because westonites aren't advocating for electrification on the lakeshore line, etc. but are for the georgetown line could be self interest but it's a starting point for electrification in toronto and the opportunity has arrived. it may be self interest but it has potential to be beneficial for that whole corridor within toronto. by the same token, you can argue that proponents of blue 22 are acting in self interest for their exclusive luxury service since most people will be priced out from using this service regularly and it won't benefit that much people like a publicly owned rapid transit line would.
since these infrastructure projects are important and long lasting, better to do it right the first time.
i also don't buy the false dichotomy that extra money wasted on this project for weston is money that could have gone somewhere else. if you want, you can argue that money wasted on blue 22 and its exclusive service is money that could have been used elsewhere on transit projects. there is both money for blue 22 and money to satisfy the needs of existing residents and communities along the rail corridor. for pete sakes, we're extending the spadina subway through industrial wasteland out to a empty field, under ground mind you but we can't depress a rail corridor in a densely populated community?
if you want to blame anyone for slowing down GO transit improvements, blame the people who joined the blue22 and GO improvements together.
and if you want to talk about nimbyism, i've met a few people from the weston area who support the blue 22 and its original plan to close down all the side streets because they believe it would have kept the low income people and "crack heads" on the west side of the tracks, separated from the supposed affluent people . these people viewed it as a possibility to have a gated community.
as for self interest, of course. who cares? would you criticize michael J fox for self interest because he suffers a disease and it's the only reason why he might have got involved in stem cell advocacy? would you criticize me for wanting elevators and accessibility throughout as self interest? sometimes you don't realize there's problem or advocate to resolve a problem until it effects you. yes, you can call it self interest if you want but the benefits can help other people in the process.
since this corridor is going to be overhauled, this is an opportunity for electrification. all rail lines in toronto should be electrified eventually. because westonites aren't advocating for electrification on the lakeshore line, etc. but are for the georgetown line could be self interest but it's a starting point for electrification in toronto and the opportunity has arrived. it may be self interest but it has potential to be beneficial for that whole corridor within toronto. by the same token, you can argue that proponents of blue 22 are acting in self interest for their exclusive luxury service since most people will be priced out from using this service regularly and it won't benefit that much people like a publicly owned rapid transit line would.
since these infrastructure projects are important and long lasting, better to do it right the first time.
i also don't buy the false dichotomy that extra money wasted on this project for weston is money that could have gone somewhere else. if you want, you can argue that money wasted on blue 22 and its exclusive service is money that could have been used elsewhere on transit projects. there is both money for blue 22 and money to satisfy the needs of existing residents and communities along the rail corridor. for pete sakes, we're extending the spadina subway through industrial wasteland out to a empty field, under ground mind you but we can't depress a rail corridor in a densely populated community?
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EnviroTO
Senior Member
I have found the EA process to be a bit of a joke. They should be depressing the CP corridor at the same time and depressing greater portions of the corridor. The corridor as planned will have far to many steep grades and CP will not buy into depressing their portion of the line because of those steep grades. In addition the corridor will likely need to have some speed restrictions due to the grade changes. Lastly, the use of diesel trains in the corridor will create greater noise and pollution due to those steep grades.
This is a very important piece of infrastructure which is the most likely path of a future high-speed rail corridor. This is an opportunity to get rid of many of the dingy road underpasses that exist in this city, widen St.Clair so the streetcar has a future ROW crossing the corridor, create a line with reasonable grades to reduce energy consumption regardless of whether or not the engine is diesel or not, and maximize the speed in the corridor so VIA trains and other express passenger services can get in and out of the city quickly.
The creation of a roller coaster in the corridor and putting an Air Rail stop in Weston to appease a few people is not in the long term interest of the city regardless of whether or not it meets the minimum requirements for grade separation. To spend so much money grade separating in Weston and at the West Toronto diamond, widening structures, and building the Dufferin jog removal and to be left with still needing to have level CP crossings in Weston, John Street Weston closed, St.Clair without an LRT ROW, and dingy underpasses everywhere... does it really make sense?? We should be pooling resources together to get this thing done right.
This is a very important piece of infrastructure which is the most likely path of a future high-speed rail corridor. This is an opportunity to get rid of many of the dingy road underpasses that exist in this city, widen St.Clair so the streetcar has a future ROW crossing the corridor, create a line with reasonable grades to reduce energy consumption regardless of whether or not the engine is diesel or not, and maximize the speed in the corridor so VIA trains and other express passenger services can get in and out of the city quickly.
The creation of a roller coaster in the corridor and putting an Air Rail stop in Weston to appease a few people is not in the long term interest of the city regardless of whether or not it meets the minimum requirements for grade separation. To spend so much money grade separating in Weston and at the West Toronto diamond, widening structures, and building the Dufferin jog removal and to be left with still needing to have level CP crossings in Weston, John Street Weston closed, St.Clair without an LRT ROW, and dingy underpasses everywhere... does it really make sense?? We should be pooling resources together to get this thing done right.
ShonTron
Moderator
St. Clair will still have a ROW - somehow, the TTC expects to fit the ROW under the bridge with a single lane in each direction for cars, bikes, trucks and the poor souls on the 41 Keele Bus.
Of course, it would have made more sense to depress the Weston Sub (and even CP) through there, at least with a gentler grade, with a slight rise for a 4-lane+ROW St. Clair overpass. A longer Weston trench would fit CP, as well as clear the Denison Road crossing and the CP crossing of Oak Street.
There will also still be a grade crossing at Woodbine Race Track (and past there, at Scarboro Street in Malton, Torbram Road, Mill Street and that's it as far as Mount Pleasant GO).
Of course, it would have made more sense to depress the Weston Sub (and even CP) through there, at least with a gentler grade, with a slight rise for a 4-lane+ROW St. Clair overpass. A longer Weston trench would fit CP, as well as clear the Denison Road crossing and the CP crossing of Oak Street.
There will also still be a grade crossing at Woodbine Race Track (and past there, at Scarboro Street in Malton, Torbram Road, Mill Street and that's it as far as Mount Pleasant GO).
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Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
i don't know why they're leaving the CP tracks out of the trench. they will have to relocate them in some sections anyway to make room for the blue 22 tracks. they should put all the 6 tracks in the trench and remove the rail bridge (lawrence underpass) at lawrence avenue west. what an opportunity to do things right.