I wonder what are the "health reasons" which are making WCC upset.

If GO decides to string the wires over the tracks, they will surely complain about how the're an eyesore which lower the property value. Failing that, they'll say the wires give off dangerous electromagnetic radiation which could lead to cancer. Or something.
 
The health 'complaint' has to be put into perspective. The Toronto Board of Health is a fair and impartial body and will come to the right conclusion on whether the added pollution along the corridor is a concern.

This is just the way our system works. We should not slam it. If those were your kids you'd be just as concerned if rail traffic was set to increase by several multiples.

Let them do their investigation. If it's warranted we'll end up with an electrified line. That's not a bad outcome. If the complaints are exaggerated the Toronto Board of Health will expose the WCC's complaints for what they are.

On a related front, if we are going to electrify this corridor down the road, shouldn't we just do it now anyway and save several headaches later? At worst electrification would add about 100-200 million to the cost of this project but we would end up with significantly faster service. Blue 22 might actually have a shot at reaching Pearson in 22 minutes from Union if it were electrified. Heck, with electrification GO might reach Pearson in 22 mins.
 
On a related front, if we are going to electrify this corridor down the road, shouldn't we just do it now anyway and save several headaches later? At worst electrification would add about 100-200 million to the cost of this project but we would end up with significantly faster service. Blue 22 might actually have a shot at reaching Pearson in 22 minutes from Union if it were electrified. Heck, with electrification GO might reach Pearson in 22 mins.

I'm all for electrification, but I think we need to separate the tracks from the wires. That's been the issue all along here. I see it as two separate projects and have no problem with them both being implemented at the same time.

But they have to be separable because I won't support tracks laying dormant if one project takes longer than the other.
 
If GO decides to string the wires over the tracks, they will surely complain about how the're an eyesore which lower the property value. Failing that, they'll say the wires give off dangerous electromagnetic radiation which could lead to cancer. Or something.
Oh, they've already got that one covered. Some of them are saying the whole thing needs to be in a tunnel. Can you imagine how much 10 km of tunnel would cost? Mind you - the Weston ones are likely self-centred enough to only care about their backyards - so perhaps only 1 km.

Let them do their investigation. If it's warranted we'll end up with an electrified line. That's not a bad outcome. If the complaints are exaggerated the Toronto Board of Health will expose the WCC's complaints for what they are.
So what's the flip side; if the complaints are supported, then all over diesel-based GO services get suspended? And any gasoline-powered vehicle on roads gets banned? Of course they'd be whining in Weston if they couldn't drive their vehicles back and forth on John Street.
 
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GO plans anger residents
Neighbours living along Georgetown line worried about pollution, noise, huge structures
Apr 22, 2009 04:30 AM
Comments on this story (52)
TESS KALINOWSKI
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/622268

What started as a pocket of opposition in Weston is rapidly becoming a river of outrage running down the GO Georgetown line, where one of the biggest transit expansions in Toronto history is underway.

As GO and Metrolinx host open houses this month outlining the grade separations, bridges and tunnels they say are needed, residents living near the tracks are holding their own gatherings, morphing into larger groups, spreading their concerns and ideas – and in at least one case, hiring lawyers.

"The plan has awoken the sleeping giant, which are the folks south of St. Clair," said Mike Sullivan of the Weston Community Coalition.

Few are arguing against the rail expansion. The question is how it will be done, and at what short- and long-term toll on residents.

GO says it is sympathetic to neighbourhood concerns, and although it's looking for ways to mitigate the noise and disruption of construction, some impact is inevitable.

"Obviously, it's in everyone's interests to get this work done as quickly as possible," said GO spokesperson Vanessa Thomas.

The Weston group has been arguing for electric trains and more consideration for neighbourhoods.

"Every time you turn around, there's another community that's being adversely affected," Sullivan said, adding allies are emerging, such as Eli Malinsky of the Brockton Triangle Residents Association.

"The vibrancy of our neighbourhoods is being threatened," said Malinsky, who helped found the Clean Train Coalition, an umbrella group for residents concerned about the pollution that will be caused by 300 to 500 diesel trains expected to run down the line daily.

Like the Weston group, its website, www.cleantrain.ca, advocates for electrification and more stations so neighbourhoods on the rail corridor can access GO. It says that if electrification is in the cards for the Georgetown line, as Metrolinx claims, it makes sense to spend the extra money now and do the project right the first time.

"Our message is a positive message. We're trying to avoid being painted NIMBY," said Malinsky. "I'm ready to accept 400 trains in my backyard; I'm not ready to accept 400 diesel trains."

Sharon Airhart also approves of the push for transit expansion, even though the noise and vibration from work improving the intersection of the CP and CN tracks known as the West Toronto Diamond drove her out of her home in the Junction neighbourhood. She moved about a kilometre away, to near Symington Ave., when she could no longer work and lost two-thirds of her income in February.

"You can't talk on the phone, you can't think a coherent thought," she said of the deafening piledriving that has gone on daily since January and could continue all year.

Now she's worried that GO is considering a similar project near Lansdowne Ave. and Dupont St., on the Davenport Diamond. Airhart said she and her neighbours are simply looking for more sensitivity from GO about the impact.

Even TTC chair Adam Giambrone, councillor for Ward 18, Davenport, was alarmed by a briefing with GO officials, who showed pictures of the nine-metre concrete walls that may be built on residential streets to accommodate raised tracks. He thinks there could be four times as much piledriving required on the track east of Lansdowne as is already being done on the West Toronto Diamond – 12,000 piles compared with 3,500.

And he said GO has done a poor job of informing residents about an open house tonight at St. Josaphat Catholic School at 55 Pelham Ave.

Giambrone, who sits on the departing Metrolinx board, said he knew the Georgetown construction would be tough on residents. "But what is beginning to tip the balance on this is the talk about these massive grade separations."

He said the province "needs to probably spend more money" to do things right. "Whether you do electrification or different construction techniques, it costs more."

GO's Thomas said that to increase service across the region, alleviating train congestion in the area is essential: "A grade separation is the only way we could accomplish this."

But there are various options for building one at the Davenport Diamond. Timelines and recommended options are still unclear.

Farther south, near Strachan Ave., David Grant, a Stafford St. condo owner, has started a Facebook group for residents who want to stop Metrolinx from building a "superstructure" to carry trains across Strachan. (Currently it's a level crossing.) The residents support a city study that suggested tunnelling under the road to mitigate the ugliness and noise of a huge bridge.

Grant's condo association has also paid a lawyer to seek an explanation from Metrolinx for how such a disruptive option became the preferred alternative.

A bridge, recommended by Metrolinx, has the least impact on utilities and GO's operations going into Union Station, explained Brian Peltier, the project manager. Plus, the work would take one to two years instead of three, he said. And then there's another reason: "The road overpass option that we're proposing is $100 million cheaper."

The bridge may be cheaper, says Councillor Joe Pantalone, who represents the ward, but Metrolinx isn't taking into account the costs to the community, he said.

"People of the community are aghast and shocked," he said, "that somehow their already tenuous quality of life will be made so much worse by an agency and an objective the community supports."
 
On a related front, if we are going to electrify this corridor down the road, shouldn't we just do it now anyway and save several headaches later? At worst electrification would add about 100-200 million to the cost of this project but we would end up with significantly faster service. Blue 22 might actually have a shot at reaching Pearson in 22 minutes from Union if it were electrified. Heck, with electrification GO might reach Pearson in 22 mins.

If the bill to electrify the corridor is only between 100 - 200 million, I say we do it... thats not really that much money in the grand scheme of things. I completely agree that a high speed rail connection to the airport is necessary, but if we really want to get into the 21st century, shouldn't we just electrify it from the onset?
 
My thoughts on the article:

1) I'm all for electrification, but I think we need to separate the tracks from the wires. I see it as two separate projects and have no problem with them both being implemented at the same time, but they have to be separable because I won't support tracks laying dormant if one project takes longer than the other.

2) There are companies who offer silent pile driving services, but it is my understanding that they did not bid on the construction contract. Since the public demands fiscal responsibility, how much controversy would there have been if the contract was sole-sourced to one of these firms.

3) When it comes to grade separations, I recognize that tunnels fit better into the urban landscape than bridges, but it's very easy for the city to propose projects with a $100 million premium and then claim that they are being ignored when the province says "no thanks."
 
i don't see electrification slowing down the track portion of the project. there is tons of work to be done before the tracks are finished; bridges, trenches, track relocations, etc.
 
Why not make all of the Georgetown line in a trench, and electrify it at the same time?

Why not do this to Milton first? :p
 
In the corridor south of the Humber River this whole thing needs a phased approach but the EA should be about getting approval for the final condition, not somewhere in between. The section north of the Humber River has no real issues.

STEP 1 – MASTER PLAN EA A master plan should have the whole thing from Humber River to Union passing under all streets except Weston, Eglinton, and Black Creek as well as being electrified. The CP tracks should also be planned to pass under all crossings south of Sheppard to the West Toronto Diamond except Eglinton and Black Creek. The gradient on the tracks should be targeted at 1% and limited to 1.5% for energy efficiency and to maximize permittable speeds in the corridor. Stop the Dufferin Jog elimination project and don’t build the final Dupont overpass segment. (Currently the steepest grade in the corridor is 0.9% with the current rollercoaster plan using 2% grades for every slope with quick dives into underpasses after passing over "untouchable" overpasses). GOAL: Reduce roadway underpasses, get the CP line into the Weston depressed corridor, and aim for energy efficiency and electric trains.

STEP 2 – WEST TORONTO DIAMOND + DUPONT Complete the West Toronto Diamond underpass but use noise dampening techniques (pre-drilling the first portion, water, noise dampening blankets) and eliminate the dingy Dupont underpass by having the Milton GO line tracks begin a downward gradient of 1% immediately after breaking off the CP line near Keele to head south and maintain that downward gradient until it meets the Georgetown line tracks at elevation 115m. The Georgetown line would have only a 1% upward gradient up out of the West Toronto Diamond underpass from 112m to 115m (instead of a 2% gradient up to 119m). The line would stay at that elevation until the existing Bloor platform which sits at 115m. The new Dupont overpass would be elevated 6m since the tracks would pass under at 115m but ground level is 118m requiring the road to be elevated to about 124m.

STEP 3 – SOUTH CORRIDOR Have the Georgetown corridor pass under Strachan at 79m which is about the same elevation of the line where it breaks off from the Lakeshore line. This reduces the height of the bridge by 4m allowing Wellington to connect to Strachan with about a 0.5m elevation difference (the same as now except upwards). Pass under King at 79m as well. This eliminates the dingy King underpass and puts King bridge at ground level. Pass under Queen at 84m which is a 0.7% grade from 79m at King eliminating the claustrophobia inducing Queen underpass and putting Queen West bridge at ground level as well as simplifying the Dufferin Jog project. Pass under Brock at 88m which is a 0.8% grade from Queen. This eliminates the Brock underpass putting the Brock bridge at ground level. Pass under Lansdowne at 94m which is a 1% grade from Brock. This eliminates the Lansdowne underpass allowing the Lansdowne bridge to cross at ground level. North of Lansdowne climb at 1.5% which allows the corridor to pass over the existing Bloor underpass. The Bloor underpass will not be removed in this stage. The corridor would pass under the existing Dundas bridge at 102m. Install electrification on this segment from Bloor to Union station including the Union terminal tracks but leave in inactive.

STEP 4 – WESTON Construct the line north of the Humber river as planned. The Georgetown line would pass over Weston Rd at 138m, this would depress Weston Rd by 1.5m. The CP line would pass under Oak St at 128m (after having passed under an elevated Wilson bridge and under the 401 lower than currently done) and follow a 0.3% grade down to meet the Georgetown line at Church St Weston. The corridor would pass under Church St Weston at 125m which is a 1.4% gradient from Weston Rd which allows the Church St Weston bridge to pass over at ground level. Pass under King St Weston at 123m (a 0.7% gradient from Church St Weston) to allow the King St Weston bridge to pass over at ground level. Pass under John St Weston at 122m (a 0.5% grade from King St Weston) allowing John St Weston to remain open and pass over on a bridge at ground level. Pass under Lawrence at 121m (a 0.5% grade from John St Weston) allowing the Lawrence bridge to pass overhead at ground level eliminating the dingy Lawrence underpass. Pass under Dennison Rd at 117m (0.5% grade from Lawrence) allowing the homes on Denison to be saved, no dingy underpass to be built, and a bridge to cross at ground level. Pass under the existing Jane St bridge at 118m (a 0.2% upward grade from Dennison). Pass under Ray at 118m allowing the Ray bridge to pass over at less than 1m above ground level eliminating the dark Ray St underpass. Finally pass over Eglinton at 123m (a 1% grade upwards) on the existing Eglinton underpass due to the proximity of Black Creek. Construct the Eglinton West GO Station to connect with the Eglinton LRT. Install electrification on this whole segment from Pearson to Black Creek but leave it inactive.

STEP 5 – ST.CLAIR UNDERPASS ELIMINATION On the CP lines coming off the North Toronto line into the corridor start a downward 1% grade immediately after passing over Old Weston Road to pass under St.Clair at 118m. On the Georgetown line coming up from the West Toronto Diamond underpass pass under St.Clair at 116m which is a 0.7% grade. This allow the St.Clair overpass to go over the corridor at 3m above the ground eliminating the unwelcoming St.Clair underpass and allowing for additional lanes to carry the St.Clair LRT. Currently St.Clair dives about 4.5m to pass under the corridor. The Georgetown corridor would continue north with the CP and Georgetown lines becoming level with one another a couple of hundred meters north of St.Clair to pass under the existing Rogers Rd bridge at 118m. Install electrification from Bloor to Black Creek.

STEP 6 – ELECTRIFICATION Electrify the line and start Blue22 electrified from the start.
 
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probably cause that line does not go to Milton?

Uh, duh. Milton goes to Milton, Georgetown goes to Georgetown.

I'm saying that Milton should be a higher priority than Georgetown. The Milton line is more heavily used than the Georgetown line. I'm sure the Mississauga stations of the Milton line are the busiest GO stations not on the Lakeshore line.
 
I'm saying that Milton should be a higher priority than Georgetown. The Milton line is more heavily used than the Georgetown line. I'm sure the Mississauga stations of the Milton line are the busiest GO stations not on the Lakeshore line.

No disagreement here, but I'm of the opinion that since CP's been so difficult to deal with it's perfectly fine to knock off lower priority projects while negotiating with CP continues.
 
The Milton line is more heavily used than the Georgetown line. I'm sure the Mississauga stations of the Milton line are the busiest GO stations not on the Lakeshore line.

Yes, GO Transit has stated that the Milton line is their 3rd busiest after Lakeshore West and Lakeshore East (or 2nd busiest if you consider the other two to be one line, which they are for all practical purposes).

GO Transit's plan to to provide all-day 2-way service on the Milton line. How soon they can begin that depends on how soon they can conclude ongoing negotiations to purchase track from CP (or CN?) and/or build a third set of tracks.

Oh, and it occurs to me that Go Transit likely expects traffic on the Georgetown tracks to exceed the Milton line's if they form part of a new Pearson-Union link.
 
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The Milton Line is perhaps an example of what happens when the ridership continues to build when you add more service. GO has added several extra rush hour trains, while Georgetown has the same four rush hour trains since 1981, which are as crowded as the Milton trains are.

Don't worry, Milton will get the improvements it needs.
 

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