[Second_in_pie]

I'm always amused by this line of reasoning ('this project or that alignment is just about impossible because we apparently can't know what's underground').

Really, what do people think could be a few feet under there that isn't found under the rest of Front Street or sites nearby, many of which have undergone massive construction projects in recent years, and some of which are under construction right now? Aurora Borealis? At this time of year? A this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely under Union Station?

Or Morlocks, perhaps? If we find Morlocks will they build the DRL for us?

If you want me to start speculating...

• There might be ancient dinosaur bones
• Frozen wolly mamoth
• Massive underground cavern, very creepy looking but otherwise uninteresting
• Massive underground cavern, with an ancient alien spaceship inside. Otherwise, uninteresting.
• Pyramids
• Aboriginal Burial Grounds
• A lost gate to Tatarus
• The site of a prehistoric swamp, which had basically condensed into pure coal
• A tunnel made by the mole people as they had to evactuate their homes due to the need of underground car parks downtown

The list goes on.

 

[EnviroTO]

But anyways these tunnels seem to flood and drain mysteriously from somewhere. What's going to prevent the lower platform from possible flooding is my biggest question? Even with pumps, the water level can still rise.

There is obviously a leak in the moat or street. That tunnel is still higher than the subway plaform which almost never has a problem. As it was an operational tunnel back before the GO concourse was built it must have had no flooding issues back then.

 

[Paleo]

Subways are built by boring a tunnel. They bored a tunnel right through downtown to hold hydro wires. There is always space to put in a tunnel. I don't see why it would be at all difficult to put in a subway station right below the current one. Regardless of where they put the DRL I would assume that the plan would be to go deep to avoid needing to move utilities and shore up foundations except for stations.

That picture looks pretty on paper. Where are the stairs for the westbound platform? How do you plan on putting in everything and keep the current station operational?

 

[unimaginative2]

That picture looks pretty on paper. Where are the stairs for the westbound platform? How do you plan on putting in everything and keep the current station operational?

I truly am shouting into the darkness here, but Enviro's plan, while a possible alternative, isn't even necessary. This has been studied in detail by a large number of professional engineers, and they determined that it would be possible to add the DRL on the same level as the existing station without disrupting the existing station. It would extend under the moat area, which is that outside space that you walk through going from the GO concourse to the existing subway station.

 

[EnviroTO]

This has been studied in detail by a large number of professional engineers, and they determined that it would be possible to add the DRL on the same level as the existing station without disrupting the existing station.

That is no longer the case. They are significantly lowering the moat in the Northeast PATH / subway / GO concourse area and the bottom of that area will slope down even further towards Union station. In addition that study was probably done prior to the Union streetcar loop which is at track level considering a subway line flush with the Union Railway Station wall would block access to the streetcar loop. I would think that they could fit at most one extra track now at the same level as the existing station.

 

[EnviroTO]

Where are the stairs for the westbound platform? How do you plan on putting in everything and keep the current station operational?

The both flights of stairs reach the lower platforms.

Track A = Current University Line Track
Track B = Current Yonge Line Track
Track C = New DRL West Track
Track D = New DRL East Track

Construction Phasing:
1. Track D and related platform and the new south platform for Track B would be built first since it wouldn't impede current operations. Approach track tunnels would permit trains currently on Track B to access Track D.
2. Operation of Yonge trains move temporarily to Track D and University trains are moved to Track B using the new south platform.
3. With service moved off of Track A, the platform and tracks for Track A and Track C are rebuilt.
4. University trains are moved back to Track A.
5. With service moved off Track B the area under Track B is constructed and Track B is rebuilt.
6. Yonge trains return to Track B and Tracks C & D are now ready for the DRL.

 

[unimaginative2]

That is no longer the case. They are significantly lowering the moat in the Northeast PATH / subway / GO concourse area and the bottom of that area will slope down even further towards Union station. In addition that study was probably done prior to the Union streetcar loop which is at track level considering a subway line flush with the Union Railway Station wall would block access to the streetcar loop. I would think that they could fit at most one extra track now at the same level as the existing station.

It's getting pretty frustrating to have to explain this so many times, but I'm a masochist that way. Heh. As I've said, it was designed to take into account the streetcar loop. The lowering of the moat will also not affect the project, as the subway line is still lower and would not be affected. The only change would be that the station mezzanine would be extended north into the area that is now the moat. It was all planned and nothing has changed or is planned to change that would affect that.

I repeat:

• The station was planned with two additional tracks and two additional platforms taking into account the streetcar loop
• The moat lowering would not affect the station as it would still be above the level of the existing tracks

 

[Dan416]

It's getting pretty frustrating to have to explain this so many times, but I'm a masochist that way. Heh. As I've said, it was designed to take into account the streetcar loop. The lowering of the moat will also not affect the project, as the subway line is still lower and would not be affected. The only change would be that the station mezzanine would be extended north into the area that is now the moat. It was all planned and nothing has changed or is planned to change that would affect that.

I repeat:

• The station was planned with two additional tracks and two additional platforms taking into account the streetcar loop
• The moat lowering would not affect the station as it would still be above the level of the existing tracks

unimaginative, you're going to be repeating this for years to come I think. Maybe you should make a thread: "Yes there is space at Union for the DRL!" and sticky it!

 

[EnviroTO]

unimaginative, you're going to be repeating this for years to come I think. Maybe you should make a thread: "Yes there is space at Union for the DRL!" and sticky it!

Or attach some sort of evidence which would in turn make other people defenders of his point of view allowing him some rest.

 

[CodeMonkey]

There is obviously a leak in the moat or street. That tunnel is still higher than the subway plaform which almost never has a problem. As it was an operational tunnel back before the GO concourse was built it must have had no flooding issues back then.

The tunnel is at subway level, it would go down under the moat and back up again by a ramp before it hit the mezzanine. It runs a bit parallel to the Northbound Young track before going up.

 

[EnviroTO]

The tunnel is at subway level, it would go down under the moat and back up again by a ramp before it hit the mezzanine. It runs a bit parallel to the Northbound Young track before going up.

The mezzanine is below moat level. VIA Departures is ground level (Level 0). VIA Arrivals (Level -1) is half a level above the moat. You go down a ramp and a small set of stairs to get to the existing GO concourse level which is level with the moat (Level -1.5). When you enter the TTC station from the moat if you look to your left you see the wall with advertising on it where the tunnel from Union station would have entered. Then you proceed down a flight of stairs to get to the mezzanine which puts you one level below the moat (Level -2.5). Then you proceed down more stairs to get you to the platform which is two levels below the moat (Level -3.5). The tracks are a couple of feet below the platform (Level -4). There is no way the old pedestrian tunnel from Union station to just inside the TTC station entrance at moat level goes as deep as track level. The old pedestrian tunnel would go down 1 1/2 levels from the VIA Arrivals level to get under the moat and up 1 level to arrive back at the moat level. Why would it go down 3 levels to be at the same level or lower than track level. The track level is never flooded so if this pedestrian tunnel at a higher elevation is flooded there must be a leak and/or drainage problem that is easily overcome.

 

[Nebakenezer]

Toronto approves plan for Union Station

$640-million revitalization will take at least five years to complete

Brodie Fenlon

Globe and Mail Update Last updated on Thursday, Aug. 06, 2009 08:33AM EDT

The future of Union Station - for the next five years at least - is one of diggers, demolition and construction crews after Toronto council approved the final piece of a $640-million revitalization plan.

With federal, provincial and city funding commitments in place, councillors voted to approve a private-sector investor to manage the commercial space at the renewed station.

"This is the beginning of the real work," Mayor David Miller said at the end of a nine-year saga of false starts and delays.

Yesterday's vote came on a busy day at city hall as council held its first regular meeting since the city workers' strike ground business to a halt on June 22. Dozens of urgent items were approved without the usual committee consideration, including a move to lease Scarborough's historic Guild Inn site to Centennial College.

Council also approved the appointment of lawyer Janet Leiper as the city's new integrity commissioner, and began debate last night on a contentious proposal to allow councillors to sue their critics on the taxpayer's dime.

The city's share of the Union Station project is $303.5-million, which includes an undisclosed one-time payment by the lessee, who won't be named until the lease is signed next month. The city will receive annual revenues from base rents and a percentage of retail revenue, although details are still under wraps.

In the next two months, the city will complete detailed design and construction plans, hire a construction management firm and put ink to paper on agreements with Queen's Park and Ottawa for combined pledges of $336.5-million. A "vigorous" five-year construction program will begin in the first quarter of 2010.

The ambitious project includes digging out a new 120,000-square-foot level for a retail concourse, several new entrances, and a $65-million tunnel at the northwest corner to connect to the city's PATH system. Two new GO Transit concourses will be built, the Great Hall will be renovated, as will the west wing for GO Transit's head office.

The renewal will also include renovated VIA Rail areas, a south entrance leading to the Air Canada Centre, and measures expected to make the 1920s-era building at least 30 per cent more energy efficient. Canada's largest green roof will sit on either side of a glass atrium built over the passenger platforms.

But with no plans to limit service and no large marshalling areas for heavy equipment, construction will be a challenge at the busy terminal, which handles 65.4-million GO Transit, TTC and VIA Rail passengers each year - twice as many as Pearson airport.

"It's not a question of wanting to do it or liking to do it," said Bruce Bowes, Toronto's chief corporate officer. "You've got to do it because you will not be able to sustain increases in transportation."

GO passenger loads are projected to double over 20 years.

In 2002, Union Pearson Group, a private consortium, won the job to renew Union Station under a 100-year lease. A review by the provincial Integrity Commissioner concluded that the selection process, though flawed, was fair.

The deal with UPG unravelled in 2006 and council approved the new strategy in 2007. Ottawa came through with its funding promise two weeks ago.

In other city hall news:

Council approved a letter of intent to finalize a long-term lease with Centennial College for the original Guild Inn property in Scarborough. The college plans to restore the historic Bickford Residence and redevelop the site as a hotel and conference centre, which will provide training for its hospitality students.

Janet Leiper, former chair of Legal Aid Ontario, will assume her role as the city's integrity commissioner Sept. 8, replacing interim commissioner Lorne Sossin. The job entails providing advice, mediation and education on the city's policies governing ethical behaviour.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto-approves-plan-for-union-station/article1242376/

 

[UD2]

Finally some concrete details on this project.

This is great news. And the Guild Inn sounds like its being put into great use. A historical site with it ownership retained by the city being restored by an accredited academic institution to be used for educational purposes while possibly making a commercial profit at the same time.

This news almost have a chance to make my day.

 

[khris]

I'm so happy this is being done, and I absolutely can't wait to see the finished product!

 

[drum118]

Aug 7

They have finish the west side entrance and will start on the east side this fall.