[mdrejhon]

Superficially speaking, here's a list of unfortunately super-competing requirements for Union electronic signage for platform entrances & on-platform:

Informational Clutter Factors

• It must be simple, minimum info
• Yet must inform complex stopping schemes of a modern RER system
  Lakeshore West has 5 different stopping plans on a summer Friday evening
  (Allstop, Express Clarkson, Express Oakville, to Hamilton DT, to West Harbour, to Niagara)
• Platform numbers blatantly visible (readable far away); i.e. big text, reversed text
  There should be lots of blank space around the platform numbers
• Route name should be extremely easy to see ("Lakeshore West", easy to read); i.e. medium text
  
• Stops listed as glanceable info in a way that does not distract from essential info above; i.e. gray text, small text, etc.
• Accomodate any operator (VIA and GO) for future flexibilitiy; i.e. display operator logo
• Accomodate ability to display occasional notes ("JAYS SPECIAL", "DELAY 15 MIN" ), used sparingly to avoid clutter.
• All signs must be consistent, Union-wide
• It must "mesh well" with existing GO schedule boards.
  Is it pleasant to glance a schedule board immediately followed by platform entrance?
• It must be new commuter friendly

Space limitation factors:

• It needs to accomodate small doors, large doors
• Tiny entrances with 2 train berths; need uncluttered way to displaying 2 sets of info
  Consider the clutter of displaying stopping plans for both, and in halls with 5 entrances (e.g. York)
• Bay/York Concourse platform entrances
• Bay/York Teamway platform entrances
• VIA concourse platform entrances
• Skywalk platform entrances (platform 3)
• Sign placement decision -- above door, on ceiling in front of door, side window, etc -- pros/cons

Simplify design complexity.

• Could use templating system (e.g. HTML templates) to accomodate portrait, landscape, speciality square screens, specialty long-strip screens
• Can use GO theme (e.g. green horizontal lines) for GO concourses, VIA theme (e.g. yellow horizontal lines) for VIA concourse, but otherwise same visual layout.
• Use industry standards like HTML to render the videoboard in order to lower the cost of this complexity & flexibility.

Long term evolution

• Old outdoor dot matrix platform signs will also need to be upgraded eventually
• Mesh well with overhead platform signage at Union
• Mesh well with overhead platform signage at other stations (e.g. Oakville, West Harbour), especially VIA+GO stations.
• Mesh well with onboard train destination signage (like TTC already uses, should be installed in the bottom deck of all trains, also for deaf accessibility reasons too)

Pulled off correctly, this could dramatically increase RER ridership (probably by more than 5%) since a lot of Toronto residents often find GO to be confusing -- often platform entrances are very opaque, all the way from entering platform, standing on platform, and standing inside train.

 

[steveintoronto]

Superficially speaking, here's a list of unfortunately super-competing requirements for Union electronic signage for platform entrances & on-platform:

There's always the option of sequencing information on the same display. Some of the most basic info can be displayed minimally in large bold print. Then the finer details follow some five seconds or so later, more detailed info, and a third sequence for options. That, of course, is all in the software, as you have alluded to prior. Once the screens are installed, the form of display can come later, and modified as needed.

If airports used the system GO uses, there would be a fliers' riot.

Which brings me to a rant I've had for a while now: At Bloor and Weston stations, the screens display UPX route information in big bold print, and in almost unreadable print below in the screen, unless you are a metre away, is the Georgetown corridor info.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I would include not just the next train departure time, but the second and third trains as well. Hopefully, real time, not scheduled times.

 

[mdrejhon]

I would include not just the next train departure time, but the second and third trains as well. Hopefully, real time, not scheduled times.

It would be a bad time at peak, due to platform overcrowding....

But, flexibility could exist to be able to do this.
-- Offpeak for closely-followed trains
-- Consecutive trains of the same route (e.g. Lakeshore West) one after the other.
-- Two 4-car EMUs doubleberthing the same track.
Etc.

 

[steveintoronto]

It would be a bad time at peak, due to platform overcrowding....

But, flexibility could exist to be able to do this.
-- Offpeak for closely-followed trains
-- Consecutive trains of the same route (e.g. Lakeshore West) one after the other.
-- Two 4-car EMUs doubleberthing the same track.
Etc.

UPX already do this with the following expected train time, as do the TTC subway signs.

 

[mdrejhon]

Correction: outgoing Lakeshore West has SIX different stopping schemes during the 3 hour evening peak on a summer Friday evening. One allstop train ends in Oakville.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I don't really see what the problem with the current wait time screens are they tell you which lines are due which stations the train will serve and what platform to go to once it arrives in the station. Why do we need to put an extra screen at all the platform stairs? Alos they have screens at the platforms that show where the train is going as well.

 

[mdrejhon]

I don't really see what the problem with the current wait time screens are they tell you which lines are due which stations the train will serve and what platform to go to once it arrives in the station. Why do we need to put an extra screen at all the platform stairs? Alos they have screens at the platforms that show where the train is going as well.

That's the way it's done at many other central train stations utilizing metro/RER type service. Even TTC labels their stairs (yonge line, university line, east, Kiping, etc). With dynamic platform assignment, and also GO/VIA platform sharing already happening (#3) and the fact twice as many trains will run through Union at peak by ~2031 -- and three times as many offpeak trains -- you're going to eventually have to label the entrances with the operator ("GO/"VIA") and route names ("Lakeshore West"). Who knows, maybe there will be opposition to displaying too much information because of the sheer number of schedule boards already in York concourse, and instead show a smaller display showing only the route name and time. I feel this will eventually need to be done as GO RER expands...

While maybe not all like this....
...It appears that this is well-liked (8 Likes

which is unusually high for an UrbanToronto post), which indicates this likely is a desire by a lot of other commuters, as well.

It is my experience (elsewhere) it helps both experienced and infrequent/casual commuters. In peak, regular commuters who autopilot towards their platform, will find comfort their platfrom has not changed. Infrequent/new commuters would more easily match the schedule boards to the platform entrances, finding the GO system less confusing.

A well-done implementation can help manage platform overcrowding (displaying departure delay)

Perhaps or perhaps not, the schedule boards could actually be simplified and made easier to read over time, to mesh very well with the platform entrance displays.

 

[TransitBart]

I actually can't believe this is a real discussion. As in, I can't believe how badly run Union is now that Mark for example has called out the platform signage.

I use airports a lot and gate assignments are dynamically and clearly updated regularly.

Train travel in Europe is similarly done. I had missed that Union Station was in some key ways so poorly designed. Fortunately is an easy fix for an agency attuned to the issues. I suppose we shall see.

Meine Damen und Herren auf dem Gleiss Eins... (German for )

Ladies and Gentlemen on platform 1, the ICE 658 bound for Frankfurt Airport, ...

How come why is so obvious elsewhere has been overlooked here? Why do some organizations have a "not invented here" aversion?

 

[TransitBart]

Airport style displays are awful - way too much information crammed into way too small a display - and would I really care about what happens in the other lines? Nope.

AoD

My favourite airport display is at the Lufthansa check-in at Frankfurt. It's huge. I could watch it all day.

 

[TransitBart]

Superficially speaking, here's a list of unfortunately super-competing requirements for Union electronic signage for platform entrances & on-platform:

Informational Clutter Factors

• It must be simple, minimum info
• Yet must inform complex stopping schemes of a modern RER system
  Lakeshore West has 5 different stopping plans on a summer Friday evening
  (Allstop, Express Clarkson, Express Oakville, to Hamilton DT, to West Harbour, to Niagara)
• Platform numbers blatantly visible (readable far away); i.e. big text, reversed text
  There should be lots of blank space around the platform numbers
• Route name should be extremely easy to see ("Lakeshore West", easy to read); i.e. medium text
  
• Stops listed as glanceable info in a way that does not distract from essential info above; i.e. gray text, small text, etc.
• Accomodate any operator (VIA and GO) for future flexibilitiy; i.e. display operator logo
• Accomodate ability to display occasional notes ("JAYS SPECIAL", "DELAY 15 MIN" ), used sparingly to avoid clutter.
• All signs must be consistent, Union-wide
• It must "mesh well" with existing GO schedule boards.
  Is it pleasant to glance a schedule board immediately followed by platform entrance?
• It must be new commuter friendly

Space limitation factors:

• It needs to accomodate small doors, large doors
• Tiny entrances with 2 train berths; need uncluttered way to displaying 2 sets of info
  Consider the clutter of displaying stopping plans for both, and in halls with 5 entrances (e.g. York)
• Bay/York Concourse platform entrances
• Bay/York Teamway platform entrances
• VIA concourse platform entrances
• Skywalk platform entrances (platform 3)
• Sign placement decision -- above door, on ceiling in front of door, side window, etc -- pros/cons

Simplify design complexity.

• Could use templating system (e.g. HTML templates) to accomodate portrait, landscape, speciality square screens, specialty long-strip screens
• Can use GO theme (e.g. green horizontal lines) for GO concourses, VIA theme (e.g. yellow horizontal lines) for VIA concourse, but otherwise same visual layout.
• Use industry standards like HTML to render the videoboard in order to lower the cost of this complexity & flexibility.

Long term evolution

• Old outdoor dot matrix platform signs will also need to be upgraded eventually
• Mesh well with overhead platform signage at Union
• Mesh well with overhead platform signage at other stations (e.g. Oakville, West Harbour), especially VIA+GO stations.
• Mesh well with onboard train destination signage (like TTC already uses, should be installed in the bottom deck of all trains, also for deaf accessibility reasons too)

Pulled off correctly, this could dramatically increase RER ridership (probably by more than 5%) since a lot of Toronto residents often find GO to be confusing -- often platform entrances are very opaque, all the way from entering platform, standing on platform, and standing inside train.

Metrolinx will pay money to design this and yet this is a remarkably clear and succinct design concept. Good thinking.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Oh look - speaking of the "devil" - an almost completely new information-free blog posting!

Metrolinx ‏@Metrolinx 2h2 hours ago
What are we doing to Union Station's 90-year-old train shed? More on the latest phase of the Revitalization Project http://bit.ly/2bl1GC5

https://blog.metrolinx.com/2016/08/15/union-station-revitalization/

And of the entire verbage, only one short paragraph talks about what's actually happening - and that in itself is absolutely nothing new to current users. Who needs update like these - specially considering they have been doing it for how many years? What I wanted to know is - timeframes - impact of electrification plans, future disruptions, improvements to existing deficiencies while construction is ongoing, etc.

AoD

 

[mdrejhon]

Bonus points to everybody who recognizes exactly which parts of Union station this is all located in (HINT: It's all the same part of Union)

Mommy, what's behind the curtains?

The puppeteer of Wizard of Oz is not in...

I was standing in legal area, I swear! Taking pic over the top of curtains with raised phone.

Naked Union columns.

...with 80+ years of corrosion revealed

And a mysterious 1920s era door, revealed by removed drywall:

Welcome to the USSR. (for now):

Memories of 1920 showcase displays wafts through:

Almost vaguely familiar:

Fascinating what surprised that removed drywalls reveals.

Now this is getting more familar.

 

[Richard White]

I did not think that the departures and arrivals concourses were getting that much of a makeover. I figured they would renovate it but I never thought they would gut it. Are they replacing all the marble and tiles?

Bonus points to everybody who recognizes exactly which parts of Union station this is all located in (HINT: It's all the same part of Union)

Mommy, what's behind the curtains?
View attachment 83960

The puppeteer of Wizard of Oz is not in...
View attachment 83951

I was standing in legal area, I swear! Taking pic over the top of curtains with raised phone.
View attachment 83950

Naked Union columns.
View attachment 83952

...with 80+ years of corrosion revealed
View attachment 83953

And a mysterious 1920s era door, revealed by removed drywall:
View attachment 83954

Welcome to the USSR. (for now):
View attachment 83955

Memories of 1920 showcase displays wafts through:
View attachment 83956

Almost vaguely familiar:
View attachment 83957

Fascinating what surprised that removed drywalls reveals.View attachment 83958

Now this is getting more familar.
View attachment 83959

 

[mdrejhon]

Appears so!

I see areas where floors seem to be bare.
And stripped concrete where tiles used to be.
Complete gut reno. Roughly half seem to be fully gutted now.