Didn't the feds recently sign a new agreement with the US allowing pre-clearance in train stations? from what I recall they were only planning on using it at Vancouver and Montreal for their Amtrak services since they don't have any intermediate stops before the border though. I wonder if a "sealed cabin" could work for the Maple Leaf - leave one cabin "unsealed" to pick up people between Union and the border, and only clear that cabin at the border, to speed up clearance times.

Amtrak has been musing recently of reintroducing a Toronto-Detroit-Chicago train service as well, it would be interesting to see if that happened.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Didn't the feds recently sign a new agreement with the US allowing pre-clearance in train stations? from what I recall they were only planning on using it at Vancouver and Montreal for their Amtrak services since they don't have any intermediate stops before the border though. I wonder if a "sealed cabin" could work for the Maple Leaf - leave one cabin "unsealed" to pick up people between Union and the border, and only clear that cabin at the border, to speed up clearance times.

Amtrak has been musing recently of reintroducing a Toronto-Detroit-Chicago train service as well, it would be interesting to see if that happened.
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It was approved for Vancouver and Montreal in an agreement between the U.S. and Canada; but has not been enacted in either City.

To my understanding, both sites are likely waiting for additional service frequencies to which such a project would be tied.

Montreal is currently 1x service daily to NYC, but the re-extension of the Vermonter to Montreal is pending; that and a possible direct connection to Boston would likely trigger the investment.

In Vancouver (pre-pandemic) there were 2x daily services which connect to Seattle (Amtrak Cascades service).

I believe a 3rd daily frequency is the likely trigger point there.

You need enough service to justify stationing customs staff there for at least 1 full shift a day.

Shuffling staff from the nearest airport or border crossing isn't at all practical in Toronto or Montreal.

It might be workable in Vancouver given the relative proximity of a major border crossing, but still hard to justify.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Montreal isn't really that much further from the border than Vancouver. Toronto is the odd one out where it's actually a bit of a drive.
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In either of those cases you're still looking at 45-50M drive time; which means 1'15 each way including activating and closing up your customs outpost, plus the actual border inspection.

That's a lot of deadhead time so to speak to service one train a day, or even two.
 
mdu said:
did someone say HYPERLOOP
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Nope, but we tried a Ferry; and most people looked dumbfounded and asked what a Rochester was; either that or why would anyone go there?

LOL.......turns out not everyone shares the typical UT member's fascination with all things urban.
 
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Northern Light said:
Nope, but we tried a Ferry; and most people looked dumbfounded and asked what a Rochester was; either that or why would anyone go there?

LOL.......turns out note everyone shares the typical UT member's fascination with all things urban.
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That ferry was destined to fail from the first day.

Rochester is nothing special and not somewhere people wanted to go.
 
Northern Light said:
Nope, but we tried a Ferry; and most people looked dumbfounded and asked what a Rochester was; either that or why would anyone go there?

LOL.......turns out note everyone shares the typical UT member's fascination with all things urban.
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Rochester is actually a somewhat interesting city.

Also, wouldn't using a ferry to go there massively decrease time for a car trip to NYC?
 
Towered said:
Rochester is actually a somewhat interesting city.
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I don't doubt it; but clearly that wasn't the broader public's judgement.

Also, wouldn't using a ferry to go there massively decrease time for a car trip to NYC?
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Google says drive time is 3hr 6m for Toronto - Rochester.

The Ferry's listed travel time was 2hrs 15m (seems long)

Assuming the Ferry's time built-in the drive-on/drive-off time; your savings was 51 minutes.

Material, but surprisingly small.

Fast Ferry - Rochester Wiki

rocwiki.org rocwiki.org
 
DSC said:
Though this is clearly WAAAAY off topic, I would say the problem with the ferry to/from Rochester was that its schedule really prevented day-trips.
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A lot of the problems with the Ferry were logistical/planning/funding related etc etc. The actual idea is sound, but it got caught up in a mess of problems.

Then, the news oversimplified the issue, attacks the core premise (the ferry) instead of the issues surrounding it, paints a bad picture for the premise and then makes it basically impossible for the idea to ever happen again.

Its a common problem that happens time and again in our society with many other things, and actually has been used in the past by politicians and businesses to sabotage an idea that would go against their interests. (Purposefully make a project fail as to create a bad light of the core premise in the publics mind)
 
Northern Light said:
Google says drive time is 3hr 6m for Toronto - Rochester.

The Ferry's listed travel time was 2hrs 15m (seems long)

Assuming the Ferry's time built-in the drive-on/drive-off time; your savings was 51 minutes.

Material, but surprisingly small.
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Also have to drive into Rochester.

Google says travel time from Toronto (Nathan Phillip Square) to New York City is but 7 hours 40 minutes with no traffic. But from the old Rochester ferry port is 5 hours 20 minutes with no traffic. So savings was 5 minutes. But wait, I didn't include the 8 minutes to drive from City Hall to the Toronto ferry port. Or how far in advance you had to arrive, and disembarkation time.

No time savings - perhaps even bit slower, other than perhaps less traffic. Though it might make for a more pleasant trip - especially returning to Toronto.

Personally, invariably with traffic at the Niagara border, and around the QEW,I end up crossing at Gananoque … which in theory adds a 40-minute penalty. Though I'm yet to ever have a queue worth mentioning at that crossing, and traffic from Kingston to Toronto is often better than around the QEW.

Depends where you are starting as well ... If you start at Pickering Town Centre, then the distance is equal around Gananoque (to NYC). If you start in Port Credit, an hour longer through Gananoque.

Ferry would have to be 60 to 90 minutes to be attractive for going anywhere other than Rochester.
 
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