AlvinofDiaspar said:
That's exactly what I have in mind - fighting in the political arena to get the shed portion delisted. In any case though, the heritage issue is probably second to the (un)willingness to spend the amount required to really reconfigure the station.
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Politicizing heritage is rather problematic. It sets a bad precedent. If a building is a heritage building but expensive to restore, for instance, some powerful politicians may argue that it in fact is not a heritage building and allow it to be demolished. The Bush train shed is a unique historic structure. If it's really not enough for the modern city of Toronto, then preserve it and expand rail services elsewhere, for instance with a stunning new station. Don't European cities often have multiple large railway stations? When you preserve heritage, you're almost always leading the city towards greater sophistication like multiple beautiful stations, if you have the vision.
 
junctionist said:
Politicizing heritage is rather problematic. It sets a bad precedent. If a building is a heritage building but expensive to restore, for instance, some powerful politicians may argue that it in fact is not a heritage building and allow it to be demolished. The Bush train shed is a unique historic structure. If it's really not enough for the modern city of Toronto, then preserve it and expand rail services elsewhere, for instance with a stunning new station. Don't European cities often have multiple large railway stations? When you preserve heritage, you're almost always leading the city towards greater sophistication like multiple beautiful stations, if you have the vision.
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The Bush shed is not unique. Other examples exist in Winnipeg, Newark and Chicago; there's an abandoned one in New Jersey that's much larger and more elaborate.

I won't comment on the idea that the country's premier transportation hub should be moved, and hundreds of thousands of people inconvenienced, so that a historically-designated trainshed can be preserved. I am all for heritage preservation, but I think that certain facets of city building are more important.

Neil has the best idea: disassemble the shed and build it up as some artwork in some park somewhere.

The shed is not the biggest constraint on reconfiguring the tracks - the columns supporting the tracks are. Those are in the process of being rebuilt just where they are in order to lower the floor, and at great expense and effort. These decisions were made and, with the work as far along as it is, are not going to be reversed.
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The Union station rebuild may go down as one of the biggest missed opportunities in city history. I think that if we would have waited 10 years we would have had the maturity and foresight to include so many different things at once:

- a DRL interchange station with the existing (expanded) Union subway station
- an underground, electrified railway station with proper platforms and access and egress to handle hundreds of thousands of passengers and the potential for HSR.
- a central coach terminal
- an expanded, underground LRT station for future Waterfront lines.

Instead all of these will or will not be built separately, and the final bill will probably be tens of billions more than it could have been if it had been an integrated project. Heck, with the air rights we could have sold, we might have even been able to finance a large portion of it. Ah well.
 
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junctionist:

Sorry, heritage preservation IS a political activity by its very definition. You can't argue for it when works in our favour (i.e. the 1970s) and dismiss politics thereafter. In fact, one can argue heritage preservation is in danger when it ceases to be political and detaches itself as an aloof process in and on itself without care of the greater context - i.e. utility. The issue here isn't the cost of restoration - it is the impact of the structure on an absolutely vital piece of infrastructure that is at the core of the success of the region. I have to ask - is a utilitarian train shed of limited aesthetic appeal (let's face it, that's what it is in the best of times) worth worthwhile enough for the city to completely reorder our transportation system to accommodate a decentralized system - one problem that many European countries are spending billions in order to rectify? Does removing the shed create opportunity to create greater beauty and greater efficiency for users?

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
I have to ask - is a utilitarian train shed of limited aesthetic appeal (let's face it, that's what it is in the best of times) worth worthwhile enough for the city to completely reorder our transportation system to accommodate a decentralized system - one problem that many European countries are spending billions in order to rectify? Does removing the shed create opportunity to create greater beauty and greater efficiency for users?
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I don't get it. Nothing about the train shed prevents GO from running much more frequent service at Union Station. Nor does the roof on platform 26/27 allow GO to run more frequent service on those tracks. How does the train shed roof cause GO to "completely reorder our transportation system"?

As far as I can see, capacity is primarily prevented by passenger flow:
* Tiny platforms, whose positions are reinforced by the foundation/support columns
* Limited amount of vertical mobility. An escalator for every train door might make up for tiny platforms
* Double deck trains with very thin internal stairwells to the exit. I think the design of Sydney double deck trains is better for internal flow.

And by things like brake tests, or engineers walking from one of the train to the other (no crews waiting at union), or lack of thru service (a minimum 5 minute dwell for thru service).

The weather protection has very little impact on the capacity of Union Station. You don't find it pretty, that's fine, but I actually prefer the train shed to the treatment given to platforms 26/27.

It certainly has more light in Toronto than Union Station in Chicago or worse, the dungeon that is Chicago's Millenium Metra Station, Penn Station, or the lower level of Grand Central. I think Union Station in LA is probably the best; orange trees and hummingbirds in the outdoor waiting area!
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
junctionist:

Sorry, heritage preservation IS a political activity by its very definition. You can't argue for it when works in our favour (i.e. the 1970s) and dismiss politics thereafter. In fact, one can argue heritage preservation is in danger when it ceases to be political and detaches itself as an aloof process in and on itself without care of the greater context - i.e. utility. The issue here isn't the cost of restoration - it is the impact of the structure on an absolutely vital piece of infrastructure that is at the core of the success of the region. I have to ask - is a utilitarian train shed of limited aesthetic appeal (let's face it, that's what it is in the best of times) worth worthwhile enough for the city to completely reorder our transportation system to accommodate a decentralized system - one problem that many European countries are spending billions in order to rectify? Does removing the shed create opportunity to create greater beauty and greater efficiency for users?

AoD
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The shed is an interesting structure in light of its trusswork and history. It can be renovated to have an appealing historic atmosphere. A new station or platform area would probably supplement Union Station and could be designed not to compromise the system. If you're going to spend the huge amounts of money on new platforms and a shed, I'd rather preserve the historic shed and do something new in a spectacular manner. As for the politicization of heritage preservation, I feel that while political leadership is necessary to have strong heritage preservation laws (which we have seen historically), politicians should at most address neglect in the system and take a hands-off approach to individual heritage structure and building recognition.
 
In Union Station I have to believe they are approaching structural completeness in the west concourse (by summer maybe?). I almost stuck a camera lens into the door where the Harvey's used to be to see what was up but knowing it is a transportation hub with less paranoia than the US but still elevated paranoia I decided against it. I wouldn't be surprised if the western concourse is ready to go when the Northwest PATH Phase 1 is ready. It looks like Metrolinx should be able to move into the West Wing offices sometime soon.

There are great pictures http://kentkuran.com/portfolio/captures/2013-union-station-construction/.
 
EnviroTO said:
In Union Station I have to believe they are approaching structural completeness in the west concourse (by summer maybe?). I almost stuck a camera lens into the door where the Harvey's used to be to see what was up but knowing it is a transportation hub with less paranoia than the US but still elevated paranoia I decided against it. I wouldn't be surprised if the western concourse is ready to go when the Northwest PATH Phase 1 is ready. It looks like Metrolinx should be able to move into the West Wing offices sometime soon.

There are great pictures http://kentkuran.com/portfolio/captures/2013-union-station-construction/.
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I'm definitely looking forward to the west concourse being open. Partly because of the increased capacity it'll bring, but mainly because it will be the first tangible result of the Union reno improving people's commutes. The roof is nice, but getting a little bit of sunlight doesn't really compare with a more comfortable and more open concourse area to get to your train.

Also, I think when people see the west concourse, they'll be much more sympathetic with any inconveniences as a result of the reconstruction of the east concourse.

But yes, if anyone knows a specific timeline for opening, I'd definitely be interested in knowing.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Contra:

I think the project has been delayed from 2014 to 2016, according to the Auditor General Metrolinx report:

http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_en/en12/309en12.pdf (p. 19-20 of PDF)

Should have torn that Bush shed down completely instead of eco-lipstick on a pig.

AoD
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Agreed. Or maybe only a small part of that original roof should have been spared? I hope some better lighting solution is considered for that historical portion. It is more suitable to host a Dark Age museum--it is gloomy, dark, and uninviting--rather than to be a modern train station pavilion...
 
gweed123 said:
I'm definitely looking forward to the west concourse being open. Partly because of the increased capacity it'll bring, but mainly because it will be the first tangible result of the Union reno improving people's commutes. The roof is nice, but getting a little bit of sunlight doesn't really compare with a more comfortable and more open concourse area to get to your train.

Also, I think when people see the west concourse, they'll be much more sympathetic with any inconveniences as a result of the reconstruction of the east concourse.

But yes, if anyone knows a specific timeline for opening, I'd definitely be interested in knowing.
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With all the projects at Union it kind of reminds me of a massive home renovation.....where the whole thing is a mess of inconvenience until, well, it isn't. I was just thinking the other day that with all these different projects all with completion dates so close together that we would start to see a whole plethora of finishing stages and improvements all happening in qucik order....it is going to be a very exciting time on Front Street when the big reveals start to happen.....and it ain't far off!
 
gweed123 said:
But yes, if anyone knows a specific timeline for opening, I'd definitely be interested in knowing.
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The first portions of the West Concourse are supposed to be open later this year. I've heard a number of different dates bandied about - July, September, November - but I would expect that it would likely be pretty late in the year before the doors are thrown open.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
The first portions of the West Concourse are supposed to be open later this year. I've heard a number of different dates bandied about - July, September, November - but I would expect that it would likely be pretty late in the year before the doors are thrown open.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Perfect, thanks!
 
Question. I asked on Twitter a while ago to Union Station when work would progress on the VIA retail concourse (ie. the level below VIA), and they replied that it was down the road and currently not planned. Does that mean when both GO concourses are complete, there will be a big gap which would require people to change levels to reach the other half of the retail, and does it also mean that the VIA concourse will have its original finishes while the two GO concourses will be brand spanking new? It doesn't leave a great picture in my head. If anyone in the know could comment that would be great!
 
kyler:

Per the schedule from the city (http://www.toronto.ca/union_station/construction_staging.htm)

Stage one

Completion of early works (demolition, abatement and other preparatory work)
Start of excavation ("dig down") under the York concourse, VIA concourse and part of the Bay concourse
Start of upgrades to mechanical and electrical systems
Start of restoration work on the exterior façade
Completion of loading dock
Completion of the Bay and York teamways within the viaduct structure
Completion of West Wing
Completion of VIA Panorama Lounge
Completion of two new bike stations
Completion of York concourse
Completion of lower retail level on west side
Completion of first part of North/West PATH across Front St.

Stage two

Continue with dig down under the Bay concourse
Continue with construction of the new Bay concourse
Construction of a retail level below the Bay concourse (part of the future Bay promenade)
Restoration of VIA concourse
Continuation of the restoration/repair of the exterior façade and initiate work within the Great Hall
Restoration of Front St. West moat and York St. moat and installation of moat covers

Stage three

Renovation of the first floor of the East Wing
Multi-phased dig down below the East Wing for the completion of the Bay promenade retail level
Completion of the repair/restoration of the Great Hall
Complete the repair/restoration of the exterior facade
Reconstruction of the Front St. East moat and installation of a moat cover including removal of the steps down to the TTC
Restoration of Bay St. moat and installation of a moat cover
Completion of the NW Path to Wellington St.

I think the digdown under VIA might have already happened - but then again, there isn't really a progress map from the city to illustrate what stage they're at.

AoD
 
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I might be wrong, but from my memories from the tour we took in the fall, all of the dig-down other than under the Bay Concourse has happened now. The area already excavated is huge.

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