[Jasonzed]

 

[MetroMan]

After years of trying to get public attention to this, I finally got the media to get interested due to the city's recent announcement that they're going to start focusing on beautiful design in city planning. I just interviewed for the Toronto Star about this project. They're going to get answers from Waterfront Toronto, Menkes and the Mayor and write a story.

 

[raptor]

After years of trying to get public attention to this, I finally got the media to get interested due to the city's recent announcement that they're going to start focusing on beautiful design in city planning. I just interviewed for the Toronto Star about this project. They're going to get answers from Waterfront Toronto, Menkes and the Mayor and write a story.

Other than shaming Menkes and make people shake their heads, it will not change anything at this point, unfortunately. The city can start focusing on design how much they want, but they cannot enforce design on developers. Besides, beauty is subjective.

 

[Tuscani01]

After years of trying to get public attention to this, I finally got the media to get interested due to the city's recent announcement that they're going to start focusing on beautiful design in city planning. I just interviewed for the Toronto Star about this project. They're going to get answers from Waterfront Toronto, Menkes and the Mayor and write a story.

Sadly, it's too late to do anything about this specific project. Hopefully it serves as a warning to other developers about doing an old bait and switch.

 

[MetroMan]

Sadly, it's too late to do anything about this specific project. Hopefully it serves as a warning to other developers about doing an old bait and switch.

It's a real Hail Mary shot but I wouldn't underestimate the Mayor's aversion to looking bad. Just as he's putting a focus on beautiful design, this comes to the public's attention? Yikes. If the spark hits just the right pinecone and this blows up into a PR fire, I can see the Mayor intervening. It wouldn't be the first time he's thrown away money for PR and politics.

Odds are, nothing happens and this gets built. But I can see an alternative where they pause construction of the above ground section to go back and rework even just the western edge side of the building. If we look at the design, the eastern wing was a very conventional box.

I'd be happy with even an envelope change to add architectural interest, and putting back the stairs which I think was one of the best features for this location at Sugar Beach. Remember that this is replacing the hill that people used to love sitting on watching sugar being unloaded.

Again, I'm totally aware that this is like throwing a ball just before the buzzer, it bouncing in and out of the net 4 times, falling in and ultimately beating the Golden State Warriors for the championship. Oh wait... ?

 

[Tuscani01]

It's a real Hail Mary shot but I wouldn't underestimate the Mayor's aversion to looking bad. Just as he's putting a focus on beautiful design, this comes to the public's attention? Yikes. If the spark hits just the right pinecone and this blows up into a PR fire, I can see the Mayor intervening. It wouldn't be the first time he's thrown away money for PR and politics.

Odds are, nothing happens and this gets built. But I can see an alternative where they pause construction of the above ground section to go back and rework even just the western edge side of the building. If we look at the design, the eastern wing was a very conventional box.


I'd be happy with even an envelope change to add architectural interest, and putting back the stairs which I think was one of the best features for this location at Sugar Beach. Remember that this is replacing the hill that people used to love sitting on watching sugar being unloaded.



Again, I'm totally aware that this is like throwing a ball just before the buzzer, it bouncing in and out of the net 4 times, falling in and ultimately beating the Golden State Warriors for the championship. Oh wait... ?

You are wayyyy too optimistic. Construction has started, schedules are made, trades are hired, supplies have been ordered, and clients are waiting on occupancy.

It's too late.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

As much as I dislike the current design and wish they went with the original, I would be even more aghast if they halted development at this point.

 

[raptor]

Pretty sure MetroMan is just bitter about the lack of an Apple store here ?

 

[Tulse]

Would folks be as upset with the design if the project were named something else, such as "Banal Commercial Building"? While I really want to see great design on the waterfront, I'm not sure why this particular building has become such a lightning rod, other than having a name that seems so out of keeping with its pedestrian design.

 

[MetroMan]

Would folks be as upset with the design if the project were named something else, such as "Banal Commercial Building"? While I really want to see great design on the waterfront, I'm not sure why this particular building has become such a lightning rod, other than having a name that seems so out of keeping with its pedestrian design.

Because it's at *THE* most prominent site of the emerging eastern waterfront. It's at the entrance to Sugar Beach, at the corner of the quay. It's south of Queens Quay, where in fact no development should go or only exceptional architecture. Also because it sets a terrible precedent. Waterfront Toronto went as far as to issue a reference model for the building that applicants had to strive for.

Hope this is the right thread for this....Bisnow has sent out a newsletter with a rendering of future commercial space at East Bayfront...

Quote: There is 6M SF of new office supply flooding the downtown market in coming years, so John, a former Brookfield Properties exec, says Waterfront Toronto can't simply build a bunch of generic office space: "This has to be different."

http://www.bisnow.com/commercial-real-estate/toronto/2420-biggest-project-on-the-continent/

If a developer can just win a contract using a rendering that they have no intention of building and instead building a banal boring box, then what's the point? We can't set this precedent on our waterfront because then this is how it'll be going forward.

 

[raptor]

Because it's at *THE* most prominent site of the emerging eastern waterfront. It's at the entrance to Sugar Beach. It's south of Queens Quay, where either no development should go or only exceptional architecture. Also because it sets a terrible precedent. Waterfront Toronto went as far as to issue a reference model for the building that applicants had to strive for.



If a developer can just win a contract using a rendering to win the competition but then throwing it out and building a banal boring building, then what's the point? We can't set this precedent on our waterfront because then this is how it'll be going forward.

The ship has sailed, let it go. Halting construction now will do more harm than good.

 

[DavidCapizzano]

I don’t really mind that this building is more simple in its design. With the Arbour going up next door and Lakeside and Daniels across the street plus T3 just a few lots to the east this area will hardly be lacking in interesting architecture. Assuming they move forward with the orange shadow box spandrel panels I am happy as long as the detailing is nice.

I am trying to hold my opinions on this area until it’s more complete because it feels so fragmented still - I don’t think it’s going to shine until all of the construction is complete and the different styles of buildings have a chance to interact with one another and mature.

 

[Torontovibe]

The ship has sailed, let it go. Halting construction now will do more harm than good.

For who?
I would LOVE to see this be stopped!
I think it's shameful how little our politicians care about how this city looks, especially since we know that light, colour and beauty have a huge effect on people's mood.

If in 20 years depression soars in this city, I will not be surprised at all! Very few people want to be surrounded by ugly, dull, grey, glass boxes! In fact, just today I was at a meeting and spoke to someone who lives in The Beaches and he was complaining about "depressing boxes"/condos in Toronto. I hear so many people complain about this on a daily basis, yet our politicians/city does nothing to change it. I avoid walking in parts of Toronto because I find it depressingly grey!

 

[raptor]

For who?
I would LOVE to see this be stopped!
I think it's shameful how little our politicians care about how this city looks, especially since we know that light, colour and beauty have a huge effect on people's mood.

If in 20 years depression soars in this city, I will not be surprised at all! Very few people want to be surrounded by ugly, dull, grey, glass boxes! In fact, just today I was at a meeting and spoke to someone who lives in The Beaches and he was complaining about "depressing boxes"/condos in Toronto. I hear so many people complain about this on a daily basis, yet our politicians/city does nothing to change it. I avoid walking in parts of Toronto because I find it depressingly grey!

What do politicians have to do with it??

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

If a developer can just win a contract using a rendering that they have no intention of building and instead building a banal boring box, then what's the point? We can't set this precedent on our waterfront because then this is how it'll be going forward.

This is the precedent set by Waterfront Toronto and it's design review panel (which I still am not really sure what purpose it is they serve aside from inflating already exaggerated egos of local architects).

So I am happy with the attention this building is receiving in the press. If there is a means of affecting change somewhere else under the jurisdiction of WT or in the city at large, it begins with questioning how we got from those renderings to this approved version.

(Also, I would like to go on the record again in stating that it looking "too much alike to the Ryerson SLC" should be considered a positive, rather than a negative)