E
EnviroTO
Guest
I think you are stacking the numbers in favour of the subway. Why would walking two blocks be 15min and one block be 5min? Also 25 minutes from Finch to King seems fast to me.
D
disparishun
Guest
I spent all last summer commuting from near Yonge & Clark (halfway between Steeles & 7) to Bay & King.
I always took the subway, and took the GO train only during the strike. The issue of travel time never entered into it -- five or ten minutes was pretty irrelevant next to the real reasons for my choice. The real reasons were: frequency and interconnections.
Frequency: I knew that I could pretty much head to the subway as soon as I could get out of the house in the morning. They run continuously. Not having to worry about scheduling is a major help.
Interconnections: YRT, VIVA, GO, TTC (down at Steeles) all feed the Finch subway station. Absolutely no route fed the Langstaff GO station. The only way for me to get there would have been to drive the car to Langstaff and have it sit there all day, and I preferred not to do that.
I love the idea of commuting via GO train as a kind of express route -- even if not faster, a lot more pleasant, with less-frequent stops -- but the system, even within relatively built-up Toronto-adjacent areas, is just not set up for anyone but car-drivers on an identical daily schedule.
My dream would be:
- the VIVA and GO stations merged at Langstaff;
- have bus routes that currently feed Finch subway also feed the merged Langstaff intermodal station, to provide a way to get there -- merging VIVA and GO stops would help;
- more frequent GO trains running between Langstaff and Union, so that it would actually make sense as part of a daily routine;
- ideally, an additional stop on that GO train line created at a Bloor subway station, for easy transfer to the Bloor-Danforth subway.
I think some of these things, but certainly not all, are in the works. They'd certainly work well for people I know who live in the area, but I don't know about everyone.
The additional, pie-in-the-sky component would be:
- to see the Yonge line go up to Steeles and then Langstaff (with maybe Clark in between, but I'm not fussy);
which would make Langstaff a true intermodal station for VIVA and YRT and GO bus routes, express GO train service downtown, and local subway stops southbound.
I always took the subway, and took the GO train only during the strike. The issue of travel time never entered into it -- five or ten minutes was pretty irrelevant next to the real reasons for my choice. The real reasons were: frequency and interconnections.
Frequency: I knew that I could pretty much head to the subway as soon as I could get out of the house in the morning. They run continuously. Not having to worry about scheduling is a major help.
Interconnections: YRT, VIVA, GO, TTC (down at Steeles) all feed the Finch subway station. Absolutely no route fed the Langstaff GO station. The only way for me to get there would have been to drive the car to Langstaff and have it sit there all day, and I preferred not to do that.
I love the idea of commuting via GO train as a kind of express route -- even if not faster, a lot more pleasant, with less-frequent stops -- but the system, even within relatively built-up Toronto-adjacent areas, is just not set up for anyone but car-drivers on an identical daily schedule.
My dream would be:
- the VIVA and GO stations merged at Langstaff;
- have bus routes that currently feed Finch subway also feed the merged Langstaff intermodal station, to provide a way to get there -- merging VIVA and GO stops would help;
- more frequent GO trains running between Langstaff and Union, so that it would actually make sense as part of a daily routine;
- ideally, an additional stop on that GO train line created at a Bloor subway station, for easy transfer to the Bloor-Danforth subway.
I think some of these things, but certainly not all, are in the works. They'd certainly work well for people I know who live in the area, but I don't know about everyone.
The additional, pie-in-the-sky component would be:
- to see the Yonge line go up to Steeles and then Langstaff (with maybe Clark in between, but I'm not fussy);
which would make Langstaff a true intermodal station for VIVA and YRT and GO bus routes, express GO train service downtown, and local subway stops southbound.
M
Mark Dowling
Guest
Finch to Union - 28 min according to TTC (king 27min)
www.toronto.ca/ttc/pdf/su..._chart.pdf
I suspect the comfort level of GO trains are somewhat higher than the subway though.
www.toronto.ca/ttc/pdf/su..._chart.pdf
I suspect the comfort level of GO trains are somewhat higher than the subway though.
T
Transportfan
Guest
Quote: disparishun
- to see the Yonge line go up to Steeles and then Langstaff (with maybe Clark in between, but I'm not fussy);
Why Clark? Centre St. would be the logical choice, as it is a concession street that conforms with the 2 km spacing of the stations on the northern Yonge line.
- to see the Yonge line go up to Steeles and then Langstaff (with maybe Clark in between, but I'm not fussy);
Why Clark? Centre St. would be the logical choice, as it is a concession street that conforms with the 2 km spacing of the stations on the northern Yonge line.
E
Ed007Toronto
Guest
Clark has higher density including the proposal for the mall that had the Hy & Zels. Centre is surrounded by rich folks. Not likely to use the train.
J
JoeyCuppa
Guest
Good news on the new developments up at Yonge & Steeles...
I hope they aren't planned around the car though.... since York Region is trying to "urbanize" the Yonge corridor with plans such as dedicated lanes and possibly future LRT down the middle of Yonge, I hope they are encouraging development on Yonge that provides reasons for people to use Yonge as a public space, and not just as a place to drive.
I hope they aren't planned around the car though.... since York Region is trying to "urbanize" the Yonge corridor with plans such as dedicated lanes and possibly future LRT down the middle of Yonge, I hope they are encouraging development on Yonge that provides reasons for people to use Yonge as a public space, and not just as a place to drive.
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
"I hope they are encouraging development on Yonge that provides reasons for people to use Yonge as a public space, and not just as a place to drive."
It's gonna take a looong time: maps.google.com/maps?f=q&...4&t=k&om=1
It's gonna take a looong time: maps.google.com/maps?f=q&...4&t=k&om=1
J
JoeyCuppa
Guest
Very true... but you have to start somewhere. 
D
disparishun
Guest
The problem is that the west side of Yonge is Vaughan, and it is not always clear that they are onboard with this urbanization idea.
That said, all those car dealerships on the west side of Yonge going north from Steeles -- and, for that matter, on Steeles going west from Yonge -- seem like a bit of an anachronism. I get the clustering idea: this is where the car lots are at. Yet as the area densifies, it seems awfully hard to justify using up what is getting to be pretty valuable real estate with giant, no-density lots full of new and used cars.
That said, all those car dealerships on the west side of Yonge going north from Steeles -- and, for that matter, on Steeles going west from Yonge -- seem like a bit of an anachronism. I get the clustering idea: this is where the car lots are at. Yet as the area densifies, it seems awfully hard to justify using up what is getting to be pretty valuable real estate with giant, no-density lots full of new and used cars.
Yonge at Heart – First in a Series
By: David Fleischer
http://www.yorkregion.com/article/36937
Yonge Street is the heart of York Region and the heart of historic Thornhill, but these days its future is uncertain.
Various development plans, the Viva transit system and even a proposed subway up to Hwy. 7 all ensure that whatever Yonge Street might look like in a decade, it will be significantly different from what it is now.
Markham and Vaughan are simultaneously re-evaluating the planning for that corridor, which runs along Yonge Street between Steeles Avenue and Hwy. 7.
Vocal residents packed Markham’s council chambers June 28 during the second in a series of public meetings for its Yonge-Steeles corridor study.
When the town held its first public meeting for the Yonge Street study more than 200 people attended.
The most prominent concern was a plan by Liberty Developments to redevelop the Hy and Zel’s plaza site at Yonge Street and Doncaster Road, Grandview Area Residents Association president Jerry Ambrozic said.
“People seem intimidated by the size,” he said. “Nobody is opposed to the idea of some development in the area, but it’s not natural.”
Liberty has filed plans to turn the 10 acres at 7161 and 7171 Yonge St. into a complex consisting of two 39-storey towers, two 32-storey towers and two office buildings, one at 10-storeys and the other at three.
It is expected approximately 3,100 new residents will call this development home, along with an influx of 1,000 new employees.
Local residents are in favour of re-development, but he described the scale of Liberty’s proposal as “a shocker” and said it “stands out like a sore thumb”, Mr. Ambrozic said.
Members of the Ward 1 (South) Thornhill Residents group are also concerned about the precedent something so large might set for their community, just to the north.
“What happens there is like a domino effect,” said Evelin Ellison, president of the local residents’ group.
Not so, Markham’s West District manager of planning, Ron Blake,. said.
The proposal is important, but not the only issue at stake in the town’s plans for the future.
“This is the Yonge Street study, it isn’t the Liberty Study,” he said.
Accordingly, the study will be looking beyond that site to evaluate the entire corridor and to figure out what kind of development makes the most sense as Yonge Street evolves in the coming years.
The town has retained the Du Toit Allsopp Hillier (DTAH) design and architecture firm to conduct the study. They have done similar work in Toronto, including the redevelopment of the North York Centre, just a few kilometres south of the current study site.
Mr. Allsopp said his initial reaction is buildings of five to six storeys would be more appropriate for the strip, but does not exclude the possibility of taller buildings — especially if the subway is coming.
While the Liberty proposal does not directly abut the residential area, Mr. Allsopp said, as in North York, creating a proper transition is the key.
“The fundamental issue is how the redvelopment affects the residential areas,” he said.
While several residents said they don’t want to see their neighbourhood turned into the condo forest that North York has become, the firm’s Bob Allsopp said lessons can be learned from what happened there. He said North York was planned with the assumption there would be a mix of residential and office buildings, but the condominium boom changed all that.
While having mixed development in Thornhill would be ideal, it is more realistic to assume residential development will drive things this time.
“Everybody involved in this kind of work would like to have more of a balance,” Mr. Allsopp said.
Planning has been proceeding based on the premise that bus-only lanes for Viva’s transit system will soon be in place.
But it remains to be seen how Premier Dalton McGuinty’s new proposal to replace those with a TTC subway will change things.
It was only last month Mr. McGuinty unveiled an ambitious GTA transit plan that included the extension of the Yonge subway up to Hwy. 7.
While the plan has several hurdles to overcome, officials have expressed optimism a train could be running in as little as six years.
“It’s something we have to incorporate,” Mr. Blake said. “We’re still digesting.”
Residents are also digesting what the future will mean for the proposed Liberty plaza site at the heart of their concerns.
The buildings will all meet LEED energy efficiency standards and have green roofs, he said.
LEED, which stands for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design, has become the standard system for certifying “green” buildings and it is one way large condominium projects are mitigating their impact.
Markham Councillor Valerie Burke said the needs of the neighbourhood’s current residents are paramount and their concerns about height, density and other impacts need to be allayed before shovels go in the ground.
“Before you put all these people in, let’s fix the problems we already have,” she said.
In the meantime, Ms Burke said, residents should get involved by staying in the loop and making sure their voices are heard at meetings like the one in June.
FUTURE STEPS FOR FATE OF YONGE STREET
Yonge Street south of Hwy. 7 is in a state of flux. Here is the work that is going into making it a successful street in the future.
• ROPA 43 - Also known as “Centres and Corridors.” This regional Official Plan amendment counters sprawl by funnelling development to transit corridors such as Yonge Street. The plan dovetails with Places to Grow, the provincial government’s plan for intensifying, or putting more people in, already developed areas rather than sprawling outwards.
• Yonge Street study - A joint Markham/Vaughan effort that finished last year. It concentrated on Thornhill’s heritage district, especially its streetscaping, in the interests of revitalizing and creating a pedestrian-friendly area. The streetscaping improvements were set to go in with the Viva construction, which is now on hold.
• Heritage District Plans - Markham just finished and Vaughan’s is under way. These separate plans set out guidelines for renovating and building homes in the heritage areas behind and including Yonge Street.
• The Yonge-Steeles Corridor Study - Because of ROPA 43, developers are looking at where they can intensify. Liberty’s proposal for the Hy and Zel’s plaza kickstarted Markham’s study, which is now under way. Vaughan is doing its own study on its side of Yonge Street. (in co-ordination with Markham).
By: David Fleischer
http://www.yorkregion.com/article/36937
Yonge Street is the heart of York Region and the heart of historic Thornhill, but these days its future is uncertain.
Various development plans, the Viva transit system and even a proposed subway up to Hwy. 7 all ensure that whatever Yonge Street might look like in a decade, it will be significantly different from what it is now.
Markham and Vaughan are simultaneously re-evaluating the planning for that corridor, which runs along Yonge Street between Steeles Avenue and Hwy. 7.
Vocal residents packed Markham’s council chambers June 28 during the second in a series of public meetings for its Yonge-Steeles corridor study.
When the town held its first public meeting for the Yonge Street study more than 200 people attended.
The most prominent concern was a plan by Liberty Developments to redevelop the Hy and Zel’s plaza site at Yonge Street and Doncaster Road, Grandview Area Residents Association president Jerry Ambrozic said.
“People seem intimidated by the size,” he said. “Nobody is opposed to the idea of some development in the area, but it’s not natural.”
Liberty has filed plans to turn the 10 acres at 7161 and 7171 Yonge St. into a complex consisting of two 39-storey towers, two 32-storey towers and two office buildings, one at 10-storeys and the other at three.
It is expected approximately 3,100 new residents will call this development home, along with an influx of 1,000 new employees.
Local residents are in favour of re-development, but he described the scale of Liberty’s proposal as “a shocker” and said it “stands out like a sore thumb”, Mr. Ambrozic said.
Members of the Ward 1 (South) Thornhill Residents group are also concerned about the precedent something so large might set for their community, just to the north.
“What happens there is like a domino effect,” said Evelin Ellison, president of the local residents’ group.
Not so, Markham’s West District manager of planning, Ron Blake,. said.
The proposal is important, but not the only issue at stake in the town’s plans for the future.
“This is the Yonge Street study, it isn’t the Liberty Study,” he said.
Accordingly, the study will be looking beyond that site to evaluate the entire corridor and to figure out what kind of development makes the most sense as Yonge Street evolves in the coming years.
The town has retained the Du Toit Allsopp Hillier (DTAH) design and architecture firm to conduct the study. They have done similar work in Toronto, including the redevelopment of the North York Centre, just a few kilometres south of the current study site.
Mr. Allsopp said his initial reaction is buildings of five to six storeys would be more appropriate for the strip, but does not exclude the possibility of taller buildings — especially if the subway is coming.
While the Liberty proposal does not directly abut the residential area, Mr. Allsopp said, as in North York, creating a proper transition is the key.
“The fundamental issue is how the redvelopment affects the residential areas,” he said.
While several residents said they don’t want to see their neighbourhood turned into the condo forest that North York has become, the firm’s Bob Allsopp said lessons can be learned from what happened there. He said North York was planned with the assumption there would be a mix of residential and office buildings, but the condominium boom changed all that.
While having mixed development in Thornhill would be ideal, it is more realistic to assume residential development will drive things this time.
“Everybody involved in this kind of work would like to have more of a balance,” Mr. Allsopp said.
Planning has been proceeding based on the premise that bus-only lanes for Viva’s transit system will soon be in place.
But it remains to be seen how Premier Dalton McGuinty’s new proposal to replace those with a TTC subway will change things.
It was only last month Mr. McGuinty unveiled an ambitious GTA transit plan that included the extension of the Yonge subway up to Hwy. 7.
While the plan has several hurdles to overcome, officials have expressed optimism a train could be running in as little as six years.
“It’s something we have to incorporate,” Mr. Blake said. “We’re still digesting.”
Residents are also digesting what the future will mean for the proposed Liberty plaza site at the heart of their concerns.
The buildings will all meet LEED energy efficiency standards and have green roofs, he said.
LEED, which stands for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design, has become the standard system for certifying “green” buildings and it is one way large condominium projects are mitigating their impact.
Markham Councillor Valerie Burke said the needs of the neighbourhood’s current residents are paramount and their concerns about height, density and other impacts need to be allayed before shovels go in the ground.
“Before you put all these people in, let’s fix the problems we already have,” she said.
In the meantime, Ms Burke said, residents should get involved by staying in the loop and making sure their voices are heard at meetings like the one in June.
FUTURE STEPS FOR FATE OF YONGE STREET
Yonge Street south of Hwy. 7 is in a state of flux. Here is the work that is going into making it a successful street in the future.
• ROPA 43 - Also known as “Centres and Corridors.” This regional Official Plan amendment counters sprawl by funnelling development to transit corridors such as Yonge Street. The plan dovetails with Places to Grow, the provincial government’s plan for intensifying, or putting more people in, already developed areas rather than sprawling outwards.
• Yonge Street study - A joint Markham/Vaughan effort that finished last year. It concentrated on Thornhill’s heritage district, especially its streetscaping, in the interests of revitalizing and creating a pedestrian-friendly area. The streetscaping improvements were set to go in with the Viva construction, which is now on hold.
• Heritage District Plans - Markham just finished and Vaughan’s is under way. These separate plans set out guidelines for renovating and building homes in the heritage areas behind and including Yonge Street.
• The Yonge-Steeles Corridor Study - Because of ROPA 43, developers are looking at where they can intensify. Liberty’s proposal for the Hy and Zel’s plaza kickstarted Markham’s study, which is now under way. Vaughan is doing its own study on its side of Yonge Street. (in co-ordination with Markham).
Dane
Active Member
I live.... RIGHT there.... just 2 lights north actually. and I'm unsure wether this is good or bad news.... I guess its a good thing, Density means less suburban Sprawl, but I'm sure the retail will continue the slight "korean" trend this neighbourhood has....
I'd like to see the designs of the towers... but I guess we're not losing anything nice.... and its not blocking anyone else's view... and since there is no "community" to speak of, its not destroying that sort of feeling either....
So... go ahead and build.
I'd like to see the designs of the towers... but I guess we're not losing anything nice.... and its not blocking anyone else's view... and since there is no "community" to speak of, its not destroying that sort of feeling either....
So... go ahead and build.
DaninToronto
Active Member
I would love it if they put the subway up to #7. And as for development, Yonge street should be more intensified. Around #7 its barren field and is by no means pedestrian friendly. You just wouldn't walk along that area as there is basically nothing. Car or bus are your only means.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
Hmm...a barren field, you say? That sounds like EXACTLY where we should be putting high-capacity rapid transit. Barren fields are well-known trip generators.
DaninToronto
Active Member
I bet someone said the same thing about the Shepperd line. There is devlopment, but nowhere near other parts of Yonge.
smuncky
Senior Member
it's barren cuz 1. there are 2 sets of highways and 2. there's the hydro ROW. those two things are exactly the best things to live around.