GenerationW
Senior Member
Keep telling yourself that.
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
Ervin
Active Member
I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. What is it with some people in this thread thinking that the TTC is so concerned about overcrowding. For the cash-strapped system money is much more important, and extensions bring in money, relief lines don't. They're expanding capacity on the Younge station, there's your DRL. The real one won't come for years.
Palma
Senior Member
Not extensions into the suburbs. If they brought money in then the system would be making a profit. The TTC made a profit when the system was fare by zone - the further you go the more you paid. The system was able to pay for the first subway along Yonge with profit from operations. At that time the TTC was not subsidized but funded out of paying customers only. Then expansion of transit to suburbs and elimination of fare zone payment because the TTc became politicized and an agency of the city and started to loose money.
There are tons of people that live south of Bloor and walk to work. With that DRL and fare by distance, the TTC would gain riders. Why would someone ride the TTC and pay 3.00 for a short ride. The TTC would gain riders with the DRL and fare by distance system - which I am sure will come once more transit is built
nfitz
Superstar
Could you provide some evidence that they are expanding capacity at "the Younge station". I'm not aware of any work being done to expand capacity at Bloor-Yonge in nearly a quarter century. Nor any plans other than talk.
renvel
Active Member
Willowdale Station...
...
...therefore we are still fighting for irrelivant Finch West LRT instead of Waterfront East LRT , Willowdale Station & Yonge North Subway extention...
...
Paleo
Active Member
That's a pet peeve of mine. When people misspell the name of our main street. It's only five letters...
BTW good luck with the Willowdale station. It was opposed by the local NIMBYs and council was more than happy to cut it to save on budget.
I don't think that's true. Your premise is based on the assumption that a relief line:
a) Will not attract any new riders along the route that it follows;
b) Will not attract any new riders along the route that it is relieving.
Neither of those premises is true. Transit usage in Riverdale would skyrocket if a DRL were put in place. In addition, how many people do you hear say "I would take the subway, but it's too crowded"? These are potential transit riders, who's main reason for not using the system is overcrowding. If you take 17,500 people off of Yonge rush hour trains, how many of those 17,500 spots do you think will be filled up by new people? I'd bet most of them, if not all of them.
That's what I was thinking too. The plans for expanding Bloor-Yonge are about as concrete as those for the DRL (i.e. not very).
renvel
Active Member
As far as saving money in concern , Willowdale St. is the biggest bang for a buck toward ridership expansion of whole of transit extension projects in GTA>>>
EnviroTO
Senior Member
How do you figure? You are talking about a single stop in a low density residential neighbourhood. Obviously routes with many stops would get more riders, and from a single stop perspective why would Willowdale outperform Blythwood, or Teddington Park?
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Interesting factoids from York Region's final conceptual report on the subway:
* RHC station alone would generate 12,000 riders/hr by 2021 and 14,000 by 2031.
* No more Royal Orchard (which we already knew, I think) because it's ridership would only be 2/3 of what's now at Bessarion.
* They're starting to do the assessment work on a 14-train storage facility at the north end.
* Half the trains come north of Finch at startup with 210-second headways at rush hour.
* People who wondered why they had a kajillion bus bays at Steeles will be happy to see it's now down to 16, with a loop added at Clark.
* RHC station alone would generate 12,000 riders/hr by 2021 and 14,000 by 2031.
* No more Royal Orchard (which we already knew, I think) because it's ridership would only be 2/3 of what's now at Bessarion.
* They're starting to do the assessment work on a 14-train storage facility at the north end.
* Half the trains come north of Finch at startup with 210-second headways at rush hour.
* People who wondered why they had a kajillion bus bays at Steeles will be happy to see it's now down to 16, with a loop added at Clark.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
I'm glad to hear there's some reduction at Steeles, but any underground bus terminal is still ridiculous. And even 16 bays for a non-terminal station is absurd. What bus routes are going to use them all? It's now going to be three (or possibly four) full underground levels: a concourse connecting all four corners, a massive underground bus terminal, perhaps another concourse directly above the tracks, and the tracks. No wonder costs are so high. There's no need for more than a simple suburban station and a bus terminal on the surface with potential for development above. 8 bays would be more than sufficient, with 3 each for the Steeles routes and two for any other remaining routes. It claims they're talking to Centrepoint about a bus terminal in their parking lot, so hopefully that comes to fruition.
Those ridership projections for RHC are absolutely insane. I don't think there are too many cities in the world with a suburban terminal station that's that busy.
I guess I understand the Royal Orchard decision. It doesn't make sense to add a station there now, though I do think it would be worthwhile to make the bare minimum effort to keep the line flat at that location so a station could be added in the future.
North of RHC is a perfect spot for train storage. There's a large plot of land owned by the Town and adjacent to the CN corridor that could be used.
$100 million for "30 percent" of the design is pretty high. Metrolinx would do well to look at a design-build contract as was successfully used on the Canada Line and is being used in Ottawa. Bringing in people who are more experienced in subway design and who have a better record of cost containment than the TTC could result in costs more in line with other cities. Their assumed inflation of 4% also seems high given CPI inflation of 2.1%
Those ridership projections for RHC are absolutely insane. I don't think there are too many cities in the world with a suburban terminal station that's that busy.
I guess I understand the Royal Orchard decision. It doesn't make sense to add a station there now, though I do think it would be worthwhile to make the bare minimum effort to keep the line flat at that location so a station could be added in the future.
North of RHC is a perfect spot for train storage. There's a large plot of land owned by the Town and adjacent to the CN corridor that could be used.
$100 million for "30 percent" of the design is pretty high. Metrolinx would do well to look at a design-build contract as was successfully used on the Canada Line and is being used in Ottawa. Bringing in people who are more experienced in subway design and who have a better record of cost containment than the TTC could result in costs more in line with other cities. Their assumed inflation of 4% also seems high given CPI inflation of 2.1%
Swarley
Active Member
Pretty sure that construction has significantly outpaced the CPI the last few years, 4% might even be too low.
Platform 27
Active Member
Snipping Royal Orchard results in a Clark to Longbridge interstation distance of 2.75 km -- that would make it the longest uninterrupted under-street run in the TTC subway network by a decent margin. (Off-the-road-grid stretches like Warden to Kennedy or Eg West to St Clair West are longer, mind you.)
Not saying that it's a bad decision in light of the ridership figures, only that it goes to show how low-density the area in question is.
Not saying that it's a bad decision in light of the ridership figures, only that it goes to show how low-density the area in question is.
nfitz
Superstar
What has their assumed inflation rate got to do with the Consumer Prince Index (CPI)? CPI is groceries, clothing, alcohol, and gasoline. For a construction project it's labour, steel, concrete, and gasoline. If you look at MTO's Tender Price Index (TPI) you'll see that this ranges from negative numbers, to over 12% some years. 4% may even be low, 5% is often used.
And $100 million for 30% design is high? I assume you don't actually have anything to back that up.
Paleo
Active Member
LOL. Are all of those people boarding at RHC disembarking north of Steeles? How in the world do they reconcile that number with the 4,800 peak point demand in the BCA from a couple years ago? Just by factoring in development they've increased peak point demand by 2.5x?