nfitz said:
The 2008 Metrolinx modelling and York's 2013 Yonge North modelling shouldn't be that much different in terms of 2031 modelling - they should pretty much be using the same data set (the newer set including 2041 hadn't been released yet ... though was there another one just up to 2036 in between?). So why does the York study show over 3 times more ridership.

Looking at the Metrolinx results, one possibility is they included an express rail service from Richmond Hill to Union (project 47) in addition to the all-day existing GO service to Richmond Hill (and points beyond - projects 10 and 11). And given that express line has a ridership of 32 million a year (with only 2 million a year left on the current GO service), I think they may have made that trip much faster than possible - and who knows what unrealistic links they assumed with the Eglinton and Bloor lines.

Which would also have drained away a lot of the subway service ... which may be totally unrealistic.

A table of all the various estimates, in one document, would be interesting to see.
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Can you link to the 2008 MX modelling? I haven't come across that before.

And as always, there needs to be a healthy dose of skepticism surrounding ridership induced by development. These reports really should outline expected ridership for various levels of development, rather than pretending that anybody has a clue what real estate conditions will look like 20+ years from now.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Can you link to the 2008 MX modelling? I haven't come across that before.
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Not easily from my mobile. But it's easy to find. If you go to the original 2008 Big Move report - it is simply an appendix. Can probably Google it with "big move" modelling.

I'll link it below when I get a chance.

Edit - well, it's a backgrounder, not an Appendix. But the backgrounders are all below the appendices.

Just go the main report webpage - metrolinx.com/thebigmove/en and scroll down, click on Backgrounders and then click on "Modelling Methologies and Results ...".

It should lead you to a link for: http://www.metrolinx.com/thebigmove/Docs/big_move/RTP_Backgrounder_Modelling.pdf
 
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amnesiajune said:
I'd start by asking what the city of Toronto is going to do with a railway, considering that Go Transit is provincially owned and operated. Then I'd probably ask why the city bought this land for a railway that they have no use for, and used it to build a multi-use trail that connects two major parks.
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I don't know....why did Barrie buy the railway when CN was in the process of abandoning it?

Actually with the almost 20 years of hindsight, that's a pretty easy question to answer now that you think about it, isn't it?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
I don't know....why did Barrie buy the railway when CN was in the process of abandoning it? Actually with the almost 20 years of hindsight, that's a pretty easy question to answer now that you think about it, isn't it?
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Did Barrie pull out the tracks and turn the railway into a public park?
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
I think it's less "they will move if over" than "If someone at Metrolinx actually adopts robmausser's solution to the RH line issues then they could possibly look at rerouting that path and moving the tracks and, if they actually decide to, it might actually happen."

Though I'm sure actual planners and engineers are working on this and other things, this solution is just an idea on this board.
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This isn't my idea, this is literally a plan from Metrolinx themselves. They purchased the Don Branch with the intent of shifting the Richmond Hill Line onto it, and that includes using the Leaside Spur to reconnect it to the rest of the line north.
 
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Flipped on CP24 and the Mayors of RH and Markham are with the YR chair at Toronto Exec Committee, speaking to the report from last week.

I didn't catch the whole thing but obviously they're pitching YNSE and "concurrent" construction with DRL. They were also asked about the operations issue and said something like they presume it would be similar to Spadina but those details would get figured out, particularly with fare integration under discussion (that was the YR chair).

[and CP24 cut away but it's still streaming online]

Someone (Karagyanis?) just asked Scarpitti if the Sheppard subway wouldn't help them a lot too.o_O

Toronto City Council, man.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Flipped on CP24 and the Mayors of RH and Markham are with the YR chair at Toronto Exec Committee, speaking to the report from last week.

I didn't catch the whole thing but obviously they're pitching YNSE and "concurrent" construction with DRL. They were also asked about the operations issue and said something like they presume it would be similar to Spadina but those details would get figured out, particularly with fare integration under discussion (that was the YR chair).

[and CP24 cut away but it's still streaming online]

Someone (Karagyanis?) just asked Scarpitti if the Sheppard subway wouldn't help them a lot too.o_O

Toronto City Council, man.
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This sort of makes it sound like the ferry to Rochester. The mayor of Rochester wanted it and bulit it and then they got mad because Toronto didn't build a proper ferry terminal, mainly because it wasn't something we carried about. Anyway what I'm trying to say is how necessary is it for Toronto to extend the subway outside of the city if there isn't much benefit for us?
 
a) That comment was Karagyannis. Why he was trying to drag that in, I dunno. Most of the other councillors (aside from him and Shiner) asked reasonable questions.

b) It's not remotely like the ferry to Rochester (!!!) since, duh, there would be subway stops in Toronto and it would facilitate intensification in Toronto and help people commute to Toronto and put fare-paying riders on the TTC (where, hopefully, there is room for them!) and Toronto and York Region are part of the same regional economy and....were you asking the question about the benefits to Toronto seriously, @EastYorkTTCFan ?

c) InsideToronto has an article up on the meeting, the upshot of which is that Tory and his new pals will now put the DRL and YNSE in a shopping cart and head out to see if Trudeau and Wynne wanna help them pay for this package of products.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
a) That comment was Karagyannis. Why he was trying to drag that in, I dunno. Most of the other councillors (aside from him and Shiner) asked reasonable questions.

b) It's not remotely like the ferry to Rochester (!!!) since, duh, there would be subway stops in Toronto and it would facilitate intensification in Toronto and help people commute to Toronto and put fare-paying riders on the TTC (where, hopefully, there is room for them!) and Toronto and York Region are part of the same regional economy and....were you asking the question about the benefits to Toronto seriously, @EastYorkTTCFan ?

c) InsideToronto has an article up on the meeting, the upshot of which is that Tory and his new pals will now put the DRL and YNSE in a shopping cart and head out to see if Trudeau and Wynne wanna help them pay for this package of products.
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I like how you're for this and against Sheppard east .
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
c) InsideToronto has an article up on the meeting, the upshot of which is that Tory and his new pals will now put the DRL and YNSE in a shopping cart and head out to see if Trudeau and Wynne wanna help them pay for this package of products.
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Not to poo-hoo the idea of the interregional cooperation and the soundness of this approach in this particular circumstance - but one would be crazy not to learn from history - specifically - Eglinton West. The question I have is - should a future senior level of government decide to withdraw support to one of the two, is there any commitment from either regional party to say no even if their favoured line is supported? (you know, the classic prisoner's dilemma problem)?

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Not to poo-hoo the idea of the interregional cooperation and the soundness of this approach in this particular circumstance - but one would be crazy not to learn from history - specifically - Eglinton West. The question I have is - should a future senior level of government decide to withdraw support to one of the two, is there any commitment from either regional party to say no even if their favoured line is supported? (you know, the classic prisoner's dilemma problem)?

AoD
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But in this case, Toronto can claim it can't handle the new riders if DRL isn't built. And since Yonge north will still be operated by the TTC, the city could just choose not to run trains north of Steeles until the DRL is built/funded.
 
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