Amare said:
Del Duca just sinks to new lows every week. On the pathetic scale for photo-ops, with 10 being extremely pathetic, this just ranks slightly below the Tim Horton's announcement.
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It's an election year. He has to make it look like he is doing a great job so he can get voted in.
 
If the TTC ran a bus route on Yonge north of Finch (Steeles) and ran to somewhere like Richmond Hill Centre, AND did not require an extra fare when crossing the boundary (Steeles), would the ridership of the route explode on day one? This would probably result in parking space at RHC/Langstaff GO to be full and ridership on Viva routes to virtually disappear.

Assuming this was possible, would it benefit the TTC in any way, other than getting a look at how the Yonge Subway Extension will have an impact on travel patterns?
 
Leo_Chan said:
If the TTC ran a bus route on Yonge north of Finch (Steeles) and ran to somewhere like Richmond Hill Centre, AND did not require an extra fare when crossing the boundary (Steeles), would the ridership of the route explode on day one? This would probably result in parking space at RHC/Langstaff GO to be full and ridership on Viva routes to virtually disappear.

Assuming this was possible, would it benefit the TTC in any way, other than getting a look at how the Yonge Subway Extension will have an impact on travel patterns?
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The answers to your questions are, yes. Lower the cost of traveling by transit and more people take transit.

Maybe just removing the transfer at Finch is better though. Taking over Yonge route would kill Viva's sole viable bus route.

Benefits? It will be more convenient to more people, we should have an active goal and desire of moving more people more efficiently.

Reasons why it should not happen? York residents are not subsidizing the TTC through their taxes, only through their fare. It is a poor argument that I wouldn't otherwise make if not for the existing capacity constraints on the Yonge Line and the fact that Toronto residents can't get on the subway at rush hour downstream.
 
WislaHD said:
The answers to your questions are, yes. Lower the cost of traveling by transit and more people take transit.

Maybe just removing the transfer at Finch is better though. Taking over Yonge route would kill Viva's sole viable bus route.

Benefits? It will be more convenient to more people, we should have an active goal and desire of moving more people more efficiently.

Reasons why it should not happen? York residents are not subsidizing the TTC through their taxes, only through their fare. It is a poor argument that I wouldn't otherwise make if not for the existing capacity constraints on the Yonge Line and the fact that Toronto residents can't get on the subway at rush hour downstream.
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So it is a good idea if and only if York Region residents paid more than just the fare for the TTC and Line 1 didn't have the capacity issues it does now?
 
TheTigerMaster said:
They really have one viable bus line?
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To put things in perspective...

The 35 Jane Bus (31,100 daily riders) has a ridership equivalent of VIVA (33,583 riders)

57% of VIVA's ridership is the Yonge North Route (18,955 riders).

The 56 Leaside Bus (3,400 riders) has more riders than any other YRT or VIVA bus route minus the VIVA Blue (Yonge North) and VIVA Purple (Highway 7, which boasts 9,000 riders).

So yah, to say that public transit in York Region is subsidized, is an understatement and a half.
 
Leo_Chan said:
So it is a good idea if and only if York Region residents paid more than just the fare for the TTC and Line 1 didn't have the capacity issues it does now?
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Well, TJ will disagree with me on the point.

But yes, I am firmly of the belief that Yonge North should only ever happen in conjunction with the Relief Line (and ideally, Relief Line north at that!), given present capacity constraints and ridership growth patterns.

Which sucks really, since Yonge North makes a lot of sense as a subway expansion otherwise.
 
WislaHD said:
Well, TJ will disagree with me on the point.

But yes, I am firmly of the belief that Yonge North should only ever happen in conjunction with the Relief Line (and ideally, Relief Line north at that!), given present capacity constraints and ridership growth patterns..
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Ha, no, that's not really true. We're really splitting hairs about semantics and timing.

I think the DRL is obviously needed and should be done in concert. (I've also said I think as long as DRL is underway the world won't end if the extension opens a year or two ahead). But I've also said Toronto has wasted time and money it doesn't have to spare, whether on Scarborough or the gardiner or rail deck park and so on. Growth isn't going to wait for them.

Right on the news page now is the redevelopment of Newtonbrook Plaza. That's in Toronto not waaaay off in York Region, but condos will keep marching up Yonge and there won't be infrastructure to serve the residents.

As for the question above about the bus, it's entirely hypothetical. It's equally reasonable to ask why anyone who pays full fare on A YRT or Viva bus shouldn't get a free subway ride. Obviously it would help ridership. A couple of weeks ago I was at a light by Yonge /Steeles and literally turned in a circle and saw 20 (!) buses. A BRT would be overwhelmed on day one and an LRT at or near capacity.

I know a few people here try to poke holes in the entire concept but most of us are just trying to figure out how Toronto can get its act together so we can catch up and do it.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Right on the news page now is the redevelopment of Newtonbrook Plaza. That's in Toronto not waaaay off in York Region, but condos will keep marching up Yonge and there won't be infrastructure to serve the residents.
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Yup, that is the other thing about this. It is not necesarrily even a York Region thing.

Massive growth and development will be spurred at Newtonbrooke and Steeles on the Toronto side with a Yonge North extension.

Centerpoint Mall's days would be numbered the day Yonge North is anounced. Literally every block on both sides of Yonge between Drewry/Cummer and Steeles are perfect sites for condo developments.

TJ O'Pootertoot said:
A BRT would be overwhelmed on day one and an LRT at or near capacity.
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The ridership would suggest that the LRT would have to have some sort of grade separation, at which point, may as well just build the subway.

TJ O'Pootertoot said:
But I've also said Toronto has wasted time and money it doesn't have to spare, whether on Scarborough or the gardiner or rail deck park and so on. Growth isn't going to wait for them.
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A situation that many of us are most regrettable about.

That being said, the Yonge subway is really the heart and engine of this city. If anything could kill the golden goose that is this region, it is grinding the Yonge subway to a halt with crippling congestion.

As irresponsible as making the SSE the city's transit priority over the RL is, the only thing more irresponsible would have to be moving forward with Yonge North without adequate Yonge relief in place.

But, I can't really fault York Region for Toronto's ineptitude. York Region is merely trying to fulfil the Provincial growth mandate of smart growth.
 
WislaHD said:
Yup, that is the other thing about this. It is not necesarrily even a York Region thing.
Massive growth and development will be spurred at Newtonbrooke and Steeles on the Toronto side with a Yonge North extension.
Centerpoint Mall's days would be numbered the day Yonge North is anounced. Literally every block on both sides of Yonge between Drewry/Cummer and Steeles are perfect sites for condo developments.
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Yeah, and whether it's because of how far the subway planning got already or just the natural order of things, there's a growing list. Newtonbrook is happening and there are also towers going up at Wedgewood and of course World on Yonge is already up and there's another 2 towers going in just south of there. My understanding is that the Toronto Secondary Plan for north of Finch is on hold but Markham and Vaughan finished theirs, anticipating the subway, so a developer can propose big towers and in the unlikely even they're shot down, run to the OMB screaming "Places to grow!" and "subway!"

We're putting ourselves in a pickle.

As irresponsible as making the SSE the city's transit priority over the RL is, the only thing more irresponsible would have to be moving forward with Yonge North without adequate Yonge relief in place.

But, I can't really fault York Region for Toronto's ineptitude. York Region is merely trying to fulfil the Provincial growth mandate of smart growth.
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I agree - this is the crux of the problem. Some people are painting YR as selfish but they're doing exactly what they should be doing. hard to slam a traditional suburb for trying to develop 30-storey mixed-use towers on its premiere corridor (and esspcially while Toronto is squandering scant transit $ on a terrible project) But, we don't have regional planning and we have limited funds and we have an infrastructure backlog so....a pickle.
 
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