[OneCity]

Not sure what crystal ball you're looking into but I don't think the TTC is in the beginning stages of being uploaded. Because Doug promised it means nothing. Dalton promised the same thing 15yrs ago.

No crystal ball needed its the reality of where were headed and doesn't matter if its the Cons ro Libs. NDP could likely have slowed down the process because of union privatization fears but its inevitable. Nothing ever happens quickly in our Government system so I would never attempt to put a time frame on it. Once Vaughan MC opened the questions and discussion were inevitable and this will continue in the coming decades as we progress further out of the 416. The Ford admin likely only cares for Capital control but those discussions have yet to occur so who knows what the agreements will be this term and its likely capital is all we see under this admin and the IMO the first real stepping stone towards full upload

 

[Streety McCarface]

There is no need to split the Yonge-University line. There are tons of cities in the world which are capable of operating lines which are much longer than it; the only issue with the Yonge-University line is that the TTC is incapable of operating any line which covers a long distance (be it subway line, streetcar line, or bus route).

The problem is that the University line sees only half the number of passengers as the Yonge line. From an operations standpoint, it makes complete sense splitting them to adjust frequencies to suit each one's needs.

Fun fact: the Spadina line sees fewer passengers per kilometer than the Sheppard subway, so it seems fair to split the lines and service each one accordingly.

Why is it the TTC's job to be the Subway for York Region? At what point do the surrounding Municipalities built their own high order transit? It seems Peele (or Mississauga) is the only place that is doing this. Its not Toronto's responsibility to build the Cities beyond its borders.

All transit outside of Toronto is paid for by the respective regions. It is also likely that the borders of Toronto will expand sometime in the future, and that transit will undergo fare integration which will make distant trips out in York region more profitable for the TTC.

 

[Amare]

The problem is that the University line sees only half the number of passengers as the Yonge line. From an operations standpoint, it makes complete sense splitting them to adjust frequencies to suit each one's needs.

Fun fact: the Spadina line sees fewer passengers per kilometer than the Sheppard subway, so it seems fair to split the lines and service each one accordingly. View attachment 146943

From an operational standpoint, it would make no sense to split the lines up and the TTC would have a lot of problems managing it. If they cant operate the Yonge-University line as it stands today without issue, I wouldn't expect them to be able to handle an even more complex operation.

Not only would splitting the line up be difficult to operate for the TTC, it would allow less trains per hour to travel along the Yonge line compared to what we see today which would ultimately reduce its capacity. Let's remember that it takes time for trains to turnback (between 2-3 mins) regardless of if there are step-back/double step-back in crews. Trains approaching the station would have to allow the outgoing train to completely clear the station and the cross-over tracks before pulling into the station. Then you would have the dwell time resulting from passengers offloading and loading the train. All that time adds up, and would result in long lineups of trains waiting to approach Union station (similar to what we see today at the ends of the Bloor-Danforth line, and at Finch station).

 

[Leo_Chan]

From an operational standpoint, it would make no sense to split the lines up and the TTC would have a lot of problems managing it. If they cant operate the Yonge-University line as it stands today without issue, I wouldn't expect them to be able to handle an even more complex operation.

Not only would splitting the line up be difficult to operate for the TTC, it would allow less trains per hour to travel along the Yonge line compared to what we see today which would ultimately reduce its capacity. Let's remember that it takes time for trains to turnback (between 2-3 mins) regardless of if there are step-back/double step-back in crews. Trains approaching the station would have to allow the outgoing train to completely clear the station and the cross-over tracks before pulling into the station. Then you would have the dwell time resulting from passengers offloading and loading the train. All that time adds up, and would result in long lineups of trains waiting to approach Union station (similar to what we see today at the ends of the Bloor-Danforth line, and at Finch station).

I’m all for keeping Yonge-University as one line, Line 1 , but a suggestion I have to splitting it would be at Union Station (obviously). They could create a lower level platforms for the University Line and the Yonge Line would use the current level. Since there are more “tail tracks” west of Union compared to east, the Yonge Line can drop off passengers on the north platform, go into the tunnel, turn back, and pick up on the south platform. This reduces the turn around time as trains can pull up behind immediately after the previous train clears the platform and crossover. Same operation for the lower level with the University Line, but east tail tracks instead of west. This just a conceptual fantasy idea, so by no means do I think this would realistically happen.

 

[JSF-1]

While there are Lines like Seoul Subway Line 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul_Subway_Line_1 (>100km in length) splitting the line does make a lot of sense. Theres little loss given that its pretty unlikely anyone outside of downtown would actually ride through Union to the other terminus and what inconvenience this would cost would be totally offset by the benefits.

In the case of the line in Seoul you'll notice in the Stations section that no single service runs the entire length of the route. It's split into 4 services which operate on different sections meaning that to do a full trip would require transferring.

 

[JSF-1]

All transit outside of Toronto is paid for by the respective regions. It is also likely that the borders of Toronto will expand sometime in the future, and that transit will undergo fare integration which will make distant trips out in York region more profitable for the TTC.

I seriously hope this doesn't happen. Unless the GTA moves towards a Tokyo/London style of governance, Toronto as it is, is already a nightmare to deal with and that was done just by merging Metro together; adding in the 905 will be the breaking point for this City.

 

[syn]

Next century? If a city or town is waiting on a subway extension for beyond 2100 maybe it'd be wiser if beforehand another mode is considered. Twiddling thumbs for 100yrs deadset on only one solution just to avoid a transfer doesn't sound very smart.

Regardlss, seems a safe bet that YNSE will go to at least 16th in the first phase. I mean it'll already be 100m away with the underground storage, doubt it was a coincidence such a configuration was deemed most optimal. And we know pols/planners up there want it going further than that in the next two decades, which is within the timeline of its build. Would be an 11th hour amendment not unlike the addition of Hwy 7 to York U extension..

Agreed. Quite frankly, that's absurd - if we're basing a subway extension on a 100 year window, then it would be best to build appropriate transit for the area and let them build a subway when it makes sense.

 

[syn]

I seriously hope this doesn't happen. Unless the GTA moves towards a Tokyo/London style of governance, Toronto as it is, is already a nightmare to deal with and that was done just by merging Metro together; adding in the 905 will be the breaking point for this City.

Agreed.

The previous Metro form of government forced, to some degree, each municipality to make sensible decisions.

 

[JSF-1]

That and Metro was far better at getting large transit projects built than the City currently is. The entire Subway with the exception of the Yonge Line and TYSSE was built by Metro. I would best describe modern Toronto as "Jack of all trades, master of none".

 

[micheal_can]

I seriously hope this doesn't happen. Unless the GTA moves towards a Tokyo/London style of governance, Toronto as it is, is already a nightmare to deal with and that was done just by merging Metro together; adding in the 905 will be the breaking point for this City.

Agreed.

The previous Metro form of government forced, to some degree, each municipality to make sensible decisions.

And then it is one most step to a new even bigger mega city.

 

[aquateam]

And then it is one most step to a new even bigger mega city.

The City of Greater Golden Horseshoe Area?

 

[Leo_Chan]

The City of Greater Golden Horseshoe Area?

Might as well rename it Lake Toronto.

 

[micheal_can]

The City of Greater Golden Horseshoe Area?

Harris's PC government created the mess we have now. Ford could easily do worse.

 

[Johnny Au]

Harris's PC government created the mess we have now. Ford could easily do worse.

Ford could easily amalgamate Toronto with Durham, York, Peel, and Halton when he snaps his fingers...

 

[Leo_Chan]

Ford could easily amalgamate Toronto with Durham, York, Peel, and Halton when he snaps his fingers...

And half of the GTA's population goes to Vancouver.