44 North
Senior Member
Don't really get the Hi Tech station. Want to save money just make a single station at Langstaff GO. Serve both sides of Hwy 7 at once. Walkalators are your friend.
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
drum118
Superstar
When I looked at both locations over a decade ago before appearing at an TTC meeting as well Metrolinx including talking to folks at Regional level, neither locations could support a station. If one was built, ridership would be along the lines of Coxwell and Ellsemere with no growth area due to been an Heritage area ruling out Royal Orchard.
Aerial views are great, but need to walked the area and talk to folks along it like I have. This was one of the strongest anti LRT and BRT area who supported low rise and a subway regardless how expensive the subway was as they wanted the road to drive on only.. One reason the BRT stops at Hwy 7.
Cummer make more sense then most stations in York Region.
Don't expect to see any funding until after 2022.
I did photograph the area as well and up on my site if Flickr has no lost them due to their system failure.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
City has formal report studying conversion of it’s golf course back to regular parkland - report should have been out last year but on hold due to pandemic. I strongly suspect this report will recommend conversion of City golf course to regular parkland. Anyways, with regards to conversion of Don Valley Golf Course back to regular parkland,.... over the years City Planning and Transportation Services has been getting various strategic properties conveyed to City as parkland that would improve access into the current Don Valley Golf course land / future regular parkland. My suggestions materialized in 2 of them.
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ARG1
Senior Member
The thing about High Tech Station is it is a low hanging fruit "easy to build" station. There is going to be a small MSF located north of that street so the tracks are already going to pass by the area, and if Metrolinx goes for Option 3, the station will be a surface station meaning that all they have to do is build a single high platform, an elevator, maybe some escalators, and a platform canopy. It would be super cheap and getting rid of it wouldn't be nearly enough to pay for any of the stations being cut. It really is just a cheap bonus station that they can build because the tracks will already be there.
44 North
Senior Member
Slippery slope. Bringing to Hi Tech is already an extension beyond the extension. Do that, then hey why not 16th, okay how bout Major Mack too. Then pandering and before you know it the line is underground but the promised stations remain. York Region is pretty spoiled so wouldn't surprise me.
I think one station for Hwy 7 serving north and south of there is good. Walkalators.
Undead
Senior Member
You don't need High Tech when most of the existing development (and much of what's surely to come for the box box retail immediately north of the 407) is within easy walking distance of "Bridge."
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Why are they building a subway station at Yonge & Eglinton. It's mostly low-rise buildings.
Looking north on Eglinton from just north of Yonge. On the left, there's a Laura Secord candy store, a Woolworth's five-and-dime, and a Dominion supermarket. The strip of buildings has since been replaced by the RioCan Yonge Eglinton Centre.
This photo was taken looking north from south of the intersection, showing the Tambyn Drugs store at the northwest corner. Founded in Toronto, Tamblyn was sold to Loblaws, then UK pharmacy chain Boots, then Pharma Plus, which still has an outlet on the site today. Likewise Dominion, which became Metro, is also still on the site. In the foreground diggers are taking up streetcar track on Yonge.
Aerial shot, this one taken looking north along Yonge toward Eglinton in 1951. The old streetcar barn is still standing in the lower left corner. Note how few buildings are more than two storeys high.
From link.
Looking north on Eglinton from just north of Yonge. On the left, there's a Laura Secord candy store, a Woolworth's five-and-dime, and a Dominion supermarket. The strip of buildings has since been replaced by the RioCan Yonge Eglinton Centre.
This photo was taken looking north from south of the intersection, showing the Tambyn Drugs store at the northwest corner. Founded in Toronto, Tamblyn was sold to Loblaws, then UK pharmacy chain Boots, then Pharma Plus, which still has an outlet on the site today. Likewise Dominion, which became Metro, is also still on the site. In the foreground diggers are taking up streetcar track on Yonge.
Aerial shot, this one taken looking north along Yonge toward Eglinton in 1951. The old streetcar barn is still standing in the lower left corner. Note how few buildings are more than two storeys high.
From link.
ARG1
Senior Member
I guess you missed the part where I said that the MSF will be north of High Tech Road meaning the tracks will be there no matter what. Like this isn't a case of "Well the extension is easy let's extend the tracks a bit further", no. The tracks are there. Subway trains will already be passing by that area. All that needs to be done is you build a platform. Its completely different from extending tracks to 16th which would require purchasing more corridor space from CN, which would require purchasing new tracks, which would require extending electrification all the way there as well, and which would require building new grade separations (well you can extend the line to 16th without doing this but extending it to Major Mackenzie would require grade separating the Weldrick Road crossing). There is a time and place for slippery slope arguments, this isn't one of them.
minilude
Active Member
IMO Bridge station shouldn't be built as top priority because there isn't any intensification there yet. Not even a single building. All condos are at the north side of High tech. They should rough it in and build it when the redevelopment of langstaff land actually starts.
A station at Richmond hill centre (the bus terminal) is OK but I wish there will be some kinds of walkway extension to the condo cluster because the current Richmond hill centre is super super pedestrian unfriendly for any nearby resident who wants to walk to the bus terminal. We need to walk a super detour (cutting through home depot parking lot is not an option) and climb the stupid pedestrian bridge. So everyone drives even though it looks only walking distance on the map.
A station at Richmond hill centre (the bus terminal) is OK but I wish there will be some kinds of walkway extension to the condo cluster because the current Richmond hill centre is super super pedestrian unfriendly for any nearby resident who wants to walk to the bus terminal. We need to walk a super detour (cutting through home depot parking lot is not an option) and climb the stupid pedestrian bridge. So everyone drives even though it looks only walking distance on the map.
north-of-anything
Active Member
Look at the other direction. Cummer is less than 1 km from Finch Station, while Clark is 3.45 km from Bridge as the crow flies. That's a much larger difference in distances than the 0.2 km that separates Cummer-Steeles and Clark-Steeles. The vast majority of people in the Clark Station area will not be transferring at Steeles to another bus, they'll be going up to Highway 7 or farther south than Steeles.
Just because a subway station will have 36 bus bays doesn't mean it's the next Yonge and Eglinton. It's completely absurd to suggest cutting the only station between Steeles and Highway 7 over regional politics, especially if the new station can be used to spur more intensification in Vaughan/Markham. Cummer will be intensifying regardless based on its proximity to Finch. (Why are we even comparing the two anyways, when they have similar development potential and would both reduce the need for west-east local buses to serve the Steeles hub?)
I personally think that we should have the single Bridge station as a node, and only have provisions for a future station at High Tech or Bantry. A major issue with the TYSSE was that almost every station was meant to be a transit hub in some way. Plus, if the Highway 7 BRT is ever converted to LRT, even in the distant future, a direct transfer to Line 1 would be immensely appreciated compared to the current setup. Until we start seeing actual development plans for Yonge north of High Tech, I'm not sure a station there is a priority.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Wow. A station at Langstaff GO, and another at Hi-Tech Road. When I mentioned that the Bloor Line should be extended to the Kipling Miway bus terminal I was joking making light of a poor site layout. I didn't realize that someone would actually think extending the line such a short distance to connect to a bus terminal would make sense. At Kipling they should move the subway station west, or should have built the bus terminal more east. At Langstaff the bus terminal should have been further south or the rail/subway station further north. Interestingly in both of these poorly planned sites there is a hydro corridor right through it drastically limiting the area's development potential.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Clark Ave is 1km from Steeles Ave, Clark Ave runs from Dufferin to almost Bayview (doesn't connect). Folks living near Clark Ave away from Yonge are more likely to be using buses going to Steeles bus hub! Thus, Clark Station is mainly a "neighbourhood" type Station.
Since likely to lose Royal Orchard Station, and there will only be one station between Bridge Station (Hwy 407/7 and Steeles) better to place that station closer to middle like near Centre St and John St since:
- Centre St westward connects to Hwy 7 near Dufferin (red line west of Yonge in image)
- John St eastward, east of Woodbine becomes Esna Park Drive and Alden Rd, east of Warden become 14th Ave which extends to Pickering! (red line east of Yonge in image)
This creates a more "Regional" Thornhill Station with stronger east-west bus routes servicing a much larger catchment in Thornhill - into Vaughan and Markham
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Reecemartin
Active Member
Made a video with my thoughts about the news:
More Subways, More Problems...? | The Yonge North Extension
More Subways, More Problems...? | The Yonge North Extension
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
First, just to correct something a couple of people said on the previous page, Royal Orchard is NOT in the Thornhill Heritage area. That was Centre Street, which is between Royal Orchard and Clark.
You're confusing cause and effect, I think. Langstaff is on the brink of starting and that's largely because it was assembled from a bunch of small industrial parcels and is now a blank slate.
The High Tech side is all owned by Metrus and leased to folks like Cineplex and Home Depot. As soon as it is profitable to do so, they will break those leases but they'll milk the retail that's there until it doesn't make sense. They weren't going to knock down Silver City for 75 storey towers while all the stuff we are JUST finding out about now was still being hashed out.
Anyway, someone else posted this map before but:
There actually are a couple of major development proposals, on the west side of Yonge. There are none on the east side yet for the reasons I just outlined. Similarly, there are major developments further north on Yonge. The reason there hasn't been a single proposal in the most profitable location (AT HIGH TECH), while there have been proposals popping up pretty much everywhere EXCEPT the best place to build, is because of how premature it's been. But once that snowball starts rolling downhill, it'll be an avalanche map.
And also, look how much of RH Centre is north of High Tech Road - more than you would have thought, I bet. Bridge station simply wouldn't be able to enable that northern development.
And really, it hasn't moved that much north/south. Don't forget, there as already a station at Langstaff. it's just that shifted alignment brings it much further east and that also necessitated bringing it a bit north. But the fundamental logic of having a south station for Markham and a north station for RH doesn't really change. Plus, the train has to go north up to the rail yard anyway, so you're gaining more than you're losing by throwing in one more above-ground stop along the way.
And per the rest of your comment, I think the whole area will be a lot more walkable (including between the east/west halves divided by the CN corridor) once it starts getting built out. Right now it's just too much of an in-between place.
You're confusing cause and effect, I think. Langstaff is on the brink of starting and that's largely because it was assembled from a bunch of small industrial parcels and is now a blank slate.
The High Tech side is all owned by Metrus and leased to folks like Cineplex and Home Depot. As soon as it is profitable to do so, they will break those leases but they'll milk the retail that's there until it doesn't make sense. They weren't going to knock down Silver City for 75 storey towers while all the stuff we are JUST finding out about now was still being hashed out.
Anyway, someone else posted this map before but:
There actually are a couple of major development proposals, on the west side of Yonge. There are none on the east side yet for the reasons I just outlined. Similarly, there are major developments further north on Yonge. The reason there hasn't been a single proposal in the most profitable location (AT HIGH TECH), while there have been proposals popping up pretty much everywhere EXCEPT the best place to build, is because of how premature it's been. But once that snowball starts rolling downhill, it'll be an avalanche map.
And also, look how much of RH Centre is north of High Tech Road - more than you would have thought, I bet. Bridge station simply wouldn't be able to enable that northern development.
And really, it hasn't moved that much north/south. Don't forget, there as already a station at Langstaff. it's just that shifted alignment brings it much further east and that also necessitated bringing it a bit north. But the fundamental logic of having a south station for Markham and a north station for RH doesn't really change. Plus, the train has to go north up to the rail yard anyway, so you're gaining more than you're losing by throwing in one more above-ground stop along the way.
And per the rest of your comment, I think the whole area will be a lot more walkable (including between the east/west halves divided by the CN corridor) once it starts getting built out. Right now it's just too much of an in-between place.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
This is really well done! Kudos.
My only minor comment would be on the tunnelling. I think it's clear they didn't make that huge right turn with the goal of getting to the CN corridor simply to get above ground and thereby save money on tunnelling which, as you point out, doesn't really work out since it's just a longer tunnel to get there.
I think it was a necessity, dictated by the apparently unforeseen challenges tunnelling under the cemetery. The good news is that while you don't save a lot on tunnelling, you do get some other creative opportunities by coming up a corridor that is directly in the middle of the growth centre. Plus you end up with two above-ground stations. So, you win some you lose some there
