The Yonge extension is set in stone by my books ... It would take a lot for it not to happen.

The DRL will also happen, the only question is which opens first.
 
I would have to agree with you taal. The Yonge extension is basically a DONE deal. YRT/VIVA are pushing HARD for this extension, and their entire plan hinges on the subway going up to Yonge/Hwy7. They have the political support. The Tories may fund this line because, Peter Kent, new rep for Thornhill is very supportive of this extension and knows it's value to his constituency. Thus, while Vaughan gets its Sorbara line, this will be the Kent extension.

I predict that the province will fund the next steps for this line and that is to commence some more detailed engineering and design work. The feds may come up with matching funds as part of their infrastructure funding boost.

The DRL, while definitely needed cannot and will not be built before Yonge extension. There is no EA, there are no detailed engineering plans nor is there any political will at this point to strongly pursue this project. If you compare the YRT/VIVA strategy to push their projects versus TTC, the TTC's process is a complete joke in comparison. VIVA has a strong and focused strategy and they get things done. They wanted Spadina extension to Hwy7, they got it, they got the initial VIVA system up and running very quickly. The Yonge subway extension project happened with lightning speed in relative terms. TTC didn't even had it in their priority list, and YRT/VIVA has already did most of the planning for the TTC. The EA is done, now basically just needs funding.

So it's 'ready to go'. DRL needs to get a YRT/VIVA like team involved to push its agenda and vie for funding it. TTC is obviously not capable of doing that job since they flip-flop on the issue. First they say they don't need it, now they want it. They can't make up their mind. Reality is, Metrolinx will not update their 15 year plan to include DRL, since that would mean many other projects would have to be deferred. For political reasons, the Yonge line won't be one of them.

Just my 2 cents. ;-)
 
Disparishun said:
it should also be moving pretty darn fast on fare- and physically integrated TTC subways and upgraded GO train service, especially within the 416. Where is the TTC at with that, by the way?
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If you're asking about Presto, TTC is nowhere on that. They continue to "observe" but WHEN it happens (not IF) it will be because they were dragged kicking and screaming, not because they have any brains or sense.

I believe the province has said, "No Presto, no gas tax." So wait for them to come on board at the last minute after pissing everyone else off and making them do all the work.

They have legit points about not having enough money or whatever but with every other GTA transit authority on board, they're really just being contrarian jerks to no real end. Do they really think Presto will get implemented across the GTA and they can just opt out?
 
Fare integration ... probably the most impotent transit project (yes, even compared to all the subways and LRTs) will be the last thing we'll see implemented in any full fashion ... don't hold your breath.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Possible but highly improbable. One is approved by the province and the relevant munis, and has the engineering work and EA done. The other is basically rejected by the municipality which ostensibly needs it and, frankly, hardly exists beyond the UT boards and Metrolinx's 25-year plan.

I'm not against the DRL at all - but my support and a $1.99'll get you a muffin and a coffee at Timmies.

What would be required to make the DRL happen at this point? A road trip to Damascus for Miller & Giambrone, riddiculous lobbying of Metrolinx and hell of a lot of luck. I'm not saying it won't happen...I'm just saying the Leafs winning the cup this year might be a safer place to bet your money in the short term.
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The fact that Toronto City has recently asked for DRL in the 15-year plan, improves the odds.
 
Disparishun said:
I also think that if the TTC is serious about dealing with Yonge overcrowding which, apparently, is a problem that must be addressed independently of whether the Yonge extension ever happens (it won't, I suspect), it should also be moving pretty darn fast on fare- and physically integrated TTC subways and upgraded GO train service, especially within the 416. Where is the TTC at with that, by the way?
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Fare integration is an important goal for the system overall.

However, it might not be very effective as a tool to relief Yonge subway. Service on the Richmond Hill and Stouffville lines, which could potentially relief Yonge, is way too infrequent to make a difference. In addition, the Richmond Hill route is too indirect and will be only marginally faster than the subway (35 min schedule time from Lanstaff to Union by GO, versus about 40 min by subway) unless major (and costly) improvements are made.
 
Rainforest said:
Fare integration is an important goal for the system overall.
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I am all for fare integration, as long as it does not mean flat fare over a larger area. I would prefer the whole system move to a zone (London), or distance based fare..... That would of course require entry/exit ticket/card system so that the gate receipts could accurately be distributed to those systems that were used (on a percentage used basis). It could also then be used in PPP type of arrangements where operations could be bid on by private companies, but those private companies would be invisible to the user of the system. Simply put, although we are a democracy with one vote per person - corporations have more access to government to make there case than one individual.
 
nfitz said:
Like a world-wide economic depression? Or just a change of government?
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Yes that makes it all the more likely it'll get built ... the *depression* that is ...

Take an economics class to find out why. Enough posts about how a depression entails no spending or how it should entail no spending (not that you were implying that).

Change in government at the provincial level? By the time we get around to that this project would have already started. Maybe it get's cut short at Steeles like Sheppard? That I can buy more easily.
 
i'm suprised at how lots of ppl that are against the yonge extension allways say Bloor/yonge will be overwhelmed and stuff. and then they suggest either revamping bloor/yonge, or building the DRL, why isn't the west extension of the Sheppard line suggested to alleviate the yonge line? if people could move over to the Spadina line earlier and go jsut straight to their stop down south then lots of the pressure on the yonge line could potentially be diverted for alot less of the costs of either revamping bloor/yonge or the DRL, i know it probably wouldn't help as much as the DRL, but honestly I think it would help quite a bit.
 
BMO said:
i'm suprised at how lots of ppl that are against the yonge extension allways say Bloor/yonge will be overwhelmed and stuff. and then they suggest either revamping bloor/yonge, or building the DRL, why isn't the west extension of the Sheppard line suggested to alleviate the yonge line? if people could move over to the Spadina line earlier and go jsut straight to their stop down south then lots of the pressure on the yonge line could potentially be diverted for alot less of the costs of either revamping bloor/yonge or the DRL, i know it probably wouldn't help as much as the DRL, but honestly I think it would help quite a bit.
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It wouldn't help as much as you think I'd reckon.
One of the largest problems at Bloor and Yonge is the influx of passengers coming from the Bloor East line to go south. Such an extension (Sheppard that is) probably wouldn't alleviate the situation much at Bloor.
 
yea but like what if there were less people in general on the yonge line coming from the North then, there would be less of an issue at bloor yonge
 
Rainforest said:
Yonge, is way too infrequent to make a difference. In addition, the Richmond Hill route is too indirect and will be only marginally faster than the subway (35 min schedule time from Lanstaff to Union by GO, versus about 40 min by subway) unless major (and costly) improvements are made.
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To the first point, I think you're absolutely right. Fare integration is not enough. We need the systems to interconnect physically, and we need the GO system to run much more frequently. Luckily, that's already on the books, but for some date very far in the future.

It seems clear that there is demand for an easterly north-south express line, that such a line will take a load off Yonge, and that the beginnings of such a line are already in place. Why is this not a higher priority?

To the second point, you're focusing on the wrong part of the line. Langstaff is not the station which will most benefit. Oriole and Old Cummer are -- as the packed west-to-Finch bus lines attest to. The trip from Old Cummer and Oriole to Union is much faster than riding the bus to Finch, transferring to the subwaym and taking that south.
 
Disparishun said:
To the first point, I think you're absolutely right. Fare integration is not enough. We need the systems to interconnect physically, and we need the GO system to run much more frequently. Luckily, that's already on the books, but for some date very far in the future.

It seems clear that there is demand for an easterly north-south express line, that such a line will take a load off Yonge, and that the beginnings of such a line are already in place. Why is this not a higher priority?

To the second point, you're focusing on the wrong part of the line. Langstaff is not the station which will most benefit. Oriole and Old Cummer are -- as the packed west-to-Finch bus lines attest to. The trip from Old Cummer and Oriole to Union is much faster than riding the bus to Finch, transferring to the subwaym and taking that south.
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Agreed. Make Old Cummer or a new Steeles station the terminus of the Richmond Hill line for all I care. North York and Scarborough have the best opportunity to realize travel time savings by using the Richmond Hill line -certainly not people who live in central York Region that will soon be able to walk to the subway.
 
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