micheal_can
Senior Member
I'm that case, the trains would be packed by the time they reached Newmarket, let alone the GTA proper!
Not if the trains were 10 times longer and interlined with Line 2.....
I'm that case, the trains would be packed by the time they reached Newmarket, let alone the GTA proper!
Why? I think the natural end would be the Richmond Hill station. Any shorter and you leave it line Finch, short of where the major ridership will want to board.
Agreed. A natural terminus/transit hub/interchange, the suburbs of the GTA aren't the suburbs of Toronto. Eventually line 2 should be extended into Mississauga..Why? I think the natural end would be the Richmond Hill station. Any shorter and you leave it line Finch, short of where the major ridership will want to board.
Agreed. A natural terminus/transit hub/interchange, the suburbs of the GTA aren't the suburbs of Toronto. Eventually line 2 should be extended into Mississauga..
That's what GO is for.And line 4 should end up on Oshawa....
Think about it, if the subways filled in between the GO Stations, and the GO was a RER, and there was proper fare integration, it would do much for the Highway 2 corridor. If you look at the way Line 4 lis pointing, it could naturally keep going to Oshawa.That's what GO is for.
Agreed. A natural terminus/transit hub/interchange, the suburbs of the GTA aren't the suburbs of Toronto. Eventually line 2 should be extended into Mississauga..
Hard to say where precisely the real natural end is since the urban sprawl extends up Yonge St at least to about the Bernard Terminal. Generations from now I could foresee people wanting to build the Yonge Line as far as Elgin Mills. Beyond that is lunacy, and even to that point, quad-tracking south of Finch may have to become a necessity at exorbitant costs.
There's an obvious law of diminishing returns when it comes to how far a subway line should extend. This can be slightly mitigated if the line can run an express service, however our Line 1 can't, so there is only so far north the line can go before the sheer number of stops and over all distance the train would have to make becomes unappealing to the average rider. I look at the line going to Richmond Hill Centre as the absolute maximum extent line 1 can go before we hit the law of diminishing returns. To me the upper limit for a Subway ride that riders will tolerate is about 1 hour, after that your going to start loosing potential riders because other means (i.e. the car) become far more convenient.
If Line 1 was extended all the way north to Newmarket, I would still take the GO.
In my opinion, a rough outer loop including Hurontario, Highway 7, and the Rouge River should be considered the farthest any TTC rail line is built to. Beyond that, and it would be much more suitable for the local city's transport network to fill in the gaps.
This is why GO RER and proper fare integration is needed. If you take the subway to the nearest GO station, get on it, express into near where you are going, and then subway to your final destination, then it makes sense to extend lines forever.
GO RER itself could become a sort of secondary subway system if it was built up and run like commuter systems you see in Europe and East Asia. RER has the advantage of being more flexible in that it can run both Local and Express services while the Subway can't. GO RER has the potential to be both a great local subway like service and also an Express commuter service connecting people in the far flung areas of the suburbs where riding Local trains into Downtown just becomes a waste of time.
Comments in reply:A few questions if I could educate myself farther:
- I see you are planning twin, 6.2m dia. bore tunnels. Had you considered single bore, and can the station platforms be fully within the tunnels to reduce station excavation requirements.
- Are you aware of the emergency exit requirements? Are they the same for single bore and twin? Are connections between adjacent tunnels considered the equivalent to an actual exit to daylight? Are these firm requirements, or guidelines that can be stretched with some type of risk analysis?
- Is there a typical separation distance between tunnels of differing depth? I know this must depend on the sub-surface conditions, but what are the typical range of values? How different is this separation if tunnels are directly underneath each other and parallel, or if they cross at close to 90 degrees.