afransen
Senior Member
Wouldn't it add substantially to costs to implement in phases?
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
Rainforest
Senior Member
It is true that a number of residents will be upset, no matter which station is skipped.
IMO, the main issue here is that the extension is funded with deficit financing anyway. I understand it can't be limitless, but the cost of skipped stations seems to be relatively affordable compared to the cost of tracks they are going to lay. It's not like there is a technical limit that only allows that many stations to be built, and not a single station beyond that.
If we have to pick and choose: Clark ranks highest for connectivity, plus has new density potential. Cummer / Drewry ranks highest for serving the numerous residents living in the existing highrises, plus has new density potential. So, I really hope both those stations are built.
Royal Orchard has much fewer existing residents, not too much new density because of the geography constraints, and lesser role in connectivity provided that the Clark station exists. So, I can live with not having Royal Orchard, although it would be great if they can build that one as well.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Wouldn't cutting through a corner of Holy Cross Cemetery disturb the (Progressive) Conservative voters residing there? 
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
In image:
- Blue Line is Yonge Subway North Extension
- Red Line are existing (major) east-west bus routes that'll connect to Subway Station
- Purple Line are possible east-west bus route that'll connect to Subway Station in Thornhill (between Steeles to Hwy 407/7)
Between Steeles and Highway 407/7, York Region was betting on getting 2 Stations and spread them out as such (Clark & Royal Orchard Stations), now that Royal Orchard Station will likely get eliminated they're stuck with Clark Station.
- Clark Ave runs from Dufferin to almost Bayview (doesn't connect) - poor east-west bus route potential
- Clark Ave is 1km from Steeles Ave. Folks living near Clark Ave away from Yonge are more likely to be using Steeles Station/bus-hub - especially since using TTC Steeles bus avoids the extra YRT fare. Thus, Clark Station is mainly a "neighbourhood" type Station.
Since likely to lose Royal Orchard Station (poor business case & poor east-west bus route potential), and there will only be one station between Bridge Station (Hwy 407/7) and Steeles Station,... better to place a new "Thornhill" Station closer to middle near Centre Ave and John St:
- Problem with "Thornhill" Station at Centre Ave is locals want to preserve community of historical houses/buildings there
- Northeast corner of Yonge & John has plaza ideal for "Thornhill" station with bus terminal - but it's in flood-plain area so it'll be more expensive to construct
- Centre Ave westward connects to Hwy 7 near Dufferin - good for east-west bus route between new Thornhill Station on Yonge Subway Line and new Vaughan Metro Station at Hwy 7 and Jane Spadina Subway Line
- John St eastward, east of Woodbine becomes Esna Park Drive and then Alden Rd, east of Warden become 14th Ave which extends to Pickering! - good for east-west bus route between Yonge St and Pickering servicing mix of residential, industrial and commercial areas
By relocating Clark Station northward to John Street, it creates a more "Regional" Thornhill Station with stronger east-west bus routes to attract more locals onto Transit - fairly evenly spaced between popular east-west bus routes along Steeles and Highway 7; this is the only way I can see YorkRegion/Thornhill strengthening their case for a subway station between Steeles Station and Bridge Station (Hwy 407/7).
- Blue Line is Yonge Subway North Extension
- Red Line are existing (major) east-west bus routes that'll connect to Subway Station
- Purple Line are possible east-west bus route that'll connect to Subway Station in Thornhill (between Steeles to Hwy 407/7)
Between Steeles and Highway 407/7, York Region was betting on getting 2 Stations and spread them out as such (Clark & Royal Orchard Stations), now that Royal Orchard Station will likely get eliminated they're stuck with Clark Station.
- Clark Ave runs from Dufferin to almost Bayview (doesn't connect) - poor east-west bus route potential
- Clark Ave is 1km from Steeles Ave. Folks living near Clark Ave away from Yonge are more likely to be using Steeles Station/bus-hub - especially since using TTC Steeles bus avoids the extra YRT fare. Thus, Clark Station is mainly a "neighbourhood" type Station.
Since likely to lose Royal Orchard Station (poor business case & poor east-west bus route potential), and there will only be one station between Bridge Station (Hwy 407/7) and Steeles Station,... better to place a new "Thornhill" Station closer to middle near Centre Ave and John St:
- Problem with "Thornhill" Station at Centre Ave is locals want to preserve community of historical houses/buildings there
- Northeast corner of Yonge & John has plaza ideal for "Thornhill" station with bus terminal - but it's in flood-plain area so it'll be more expensive to construct
- Centre Ave westward connects to Hwy 7 near Dufferin - good for east-west bus route between new Thornhill Station on Yonge Subway Line and new Vaughan Metro Station at Hwy 7 and Jane Spadina Subway Line
- John St eastward, east of Woodbine becomes Esna Park Drive and then Alden Rd, east of Warden become 14th Ave which extends to Pickering! - good for east-west bus route between Yonge St and Pickering servicing mix of residential, industrial and commercial areas
By relocating Clark Station northward to John Street, it creates a more "Regional" Thornhill Station with stronger east-west bus routes to attract more locals onto Transit - fairly evenly spaced between popular east-west bus routes along Steeles and Highway 7; this is the only way I can see YorkRegion/Thornhill strengthening their case for a subway station between Steeles Station and Bridge Station (Hwy 407/7).
MrGoose
Active Member
I don't know if you ever been on these roads but Center from Bathurst to Yonge, John from Yonge to Bayview and Clark west of Yonge are not E-W corridors currently.
Center from Yonge Westwards is a 2 lane road
Center will be hard to upgrade given the narrowness of the road and the
Same applies to John
Meanwhile Clark west of Yonge is a 4 lane arterial
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Yes, I've driven on these roads many times before,.... lovely pond on Centre St favourited by Canadian geese. I realize Centre St and John St are not align and have jig at Yonge St,... and Centre St bus will have to make extra turns.
While Centre Street and John Street are not major arterial roads, they have at least 2 marked lanes - enough for a City Transit Bus - and already used by YRT & Viva buses - even though the #2 John St bus doesn't connect to Yonge St because it takes early detour south for Finch Station.
Notice: the Clark #5 bus route is just a neighbourhood route from off Yonge to just pass Dufferin. Where as Centre St #77 viva and John #2 bus routes are much longer bus routes.
source: https://www.yrt.ca/en/schedules-and...nts/system-maps/YRT-SystemMap_Web_Jan2021.pdf
Cummer Ave and Drewry Ave are similar width to Centre St and John St,.... Cummer Ave & Drewry easily support TTC bus routes
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44 North
Senior Member
Probably. YRRTC was definitely meddling in the previous plan, and is the reason why we have the ridiculous station name VMC. Wonder what names will come out of this extension.
And if the Prov is keen on saving money by omitting stations, then consolidating Hwy 7 into one is a way of doing that. RHC-LG is a single growth centre, let's see a single station.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
The whole corridor will intensify either way. But as I posted a page or 2 back Metrolinx's modelling shows 76% of those residents will still be able to walk to Steeles or Finch.
Others have covered this and I didn't mean to be snippy, it's just been asked in many forms over the years. You said to Steeles though after you made it sound like also opening the north station and then filling in the blanks?
I dunno. Even if it wasn't a political football, the TTC has shown no interest in opening any of its lines in phases in decades. Neither in building in chunks nor in tunneling all the way and then filling in stations one by one. As a regional agency I bet Metrolinx is even less inclined. It would almost certainly cost more. Probably a lot more. Plus, the developments already proposed for Steeles make it unlikely to help with phasing in ridership growth so... It just doesn't make sense.
except John is also in the heritage district (even more centrally, actually) so you're not gaining anything there. The intensification potential remains somewhere between slim and none.
44 North
Senior Member
Uh, they're doing this as we speak with Crosstown.
Undead
Senior Member
Ageist!
Rainforest
Senior Member
Both Metrolinx and York Region seem to prefer a station at Clark rather than at John, because the former has a much greater development potential.
Maybe the John / Centre location has its own merits. But if you want a robust east-west bus route in that corridor, then diverting it to Clark station might actually work better.
Centre Street is a major one between Hwy 7 and Bathurst. But between Atkinson and Yonge (heritage area), it turns into a 2-lane local road with multiple stop signs.
Same happens to John Street between Henderson and Yonge.
A bus that bypasses those sections could actually travel faster than the one that follows the straightest route. The better route could be: Centre - Atkinson - Clark - Henderson - John - Esna Park etc.
Clark between Yonge and Henderson isn't wide, either, and has stop signs. But if I remember correctly, it has fewer stop signs than the matching section of John.
ARG1
Senior Member
Cutting one of the stations will not bring in the money needed to fund any of the other things being cut. The money you save cutting one of the stations is probably negligible, and considering that the purpose of High Tech is to serve some northern developments, I have a strong feeling that is going to be funded mostly by York Region. The province really doesn't have much interest in funding it since their only mandate is bringing the line north to connect it to the 3 main viva routes, their go bus routes, and that's it. The fact that High Tech is being built is more indicative of Regional pressure than anything.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Unlike York Region, they've never pushed for a TTC extension.
Unlike York Region, they've never pushed for a TTC extension (that would be quite the convoluted route).
They are getting the one they want with this extension, so 2030 give or take. Maybe they'll want more after that.
The subway we deserve more than any other is the DRL. From 1983 when it was revived by a suburban politician (yes, it's true) after lying dormant for years and then being a feature of the TTC's 'Network 2011' plan in 1986, the DRL did not become official council policy until 2012.
As for eliminating stops, Royal Orchard and Cummer are the most obvious choices. Clark won't be cut.
Cummer and Drewry buses can continue running out of Finch Stn, and the TTC can run a Yonge North bus route from Finch to Steeles Stns. There is also the option of extending the Willowdale-Senlac 98 bus east and west on Steeles to Yonge and then south to Finch Stn before continuing the return trip north (speaking of convoluted routes).
Though I suspect some combination of the feds, York Region and Toronto will cough up enough money to build this as originally planned.
toronto647
Active Member
Steve Munro's take on the Yonge North Extension
stevemunro.ca
Metrolinx Trims Yonge North Subway (Updated)
Updated March 24, 2021 at 10:00 am: In response to feedback about my remarks regarding the area around the “Bridge” station on the new Metrolinx alignment, I have added a section at the…
stevemunro.ca
11th
Senior Member
Doesn't that tie into the assumption of line 5 bringing massive ridership increase along the Eglinton corridor?