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kEiThZ
Superstar
^ Sometimes quantity does not equal quality.
jwill
Active Member
In this case I'd say several LRT lines and two subway extensions are better than Montreal's studies.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ Have all of Toronto's lines been funded yet? No. Only four have, and I'd much rather have studies for a proper RT plan than a totally political "plan" that'd screw over the entire city's transit for decades to come.
nfitz
Superstar
I'd much rather have our situation than Montreal's. There hasn't been a single subway expansion in Montreal for 20 years, other than the third platform at Henri-Bourassa. Bus service has been cut a lot in the same period of time. Yet they have study after useless study, with lots of promises, and no construction.
GTS
Active Member
nfitz... I think you are forgetting that Montreal just completed the Laval extension last year. It crossed the river to a different region and has three stations in Laval. I haven't been to my hometown since it has been completed but I hear it has been a huge success, a lot of new commuters using the Orange Line now because of this investment.
nfitz
Superstar
I think your forgetting that the Lavel extension is not in Montreal, or even on the Island of Montreal. Nor did Montreal have much to do with it. The province has virtually seized control of Metro expansion from the City of Montreal, and has focused on services outside of Montreal.
It was quite obvious I wasn't "forgetting it" as I did not the third Henri-Bourassa platform that was part of that project.
Dan416
Senior Member
By your definition the TTC isn't expanding subway service either since all our extensions are serving York Region.
nfitz
Superstar
4 of the 6 new stations on the Spadina line are in, or partially in, Toronto; personally, I'll get a lot of use from it, and none of it will be north of Steeles; the fifth station is still a short walk from Toronto. 2 of the 6 new stations on the Yonge extension, if they build it, are in Toronto. The entire length of the Downtown Relief line is in Toronto. The entire Scarborough RT extension is in Toronto. The entire section of the Eglinton RT that will be in a subway will be in Toronto ... that's about 12 station, and almost the entire length of the 30+ km route will be in Toronto.
By no definition are all our subway extensions entirely in York Region!
Why the envy about a $12-million, 3-year delaying tactic in Montreal that is entirely about the upcoming Municipal elections in November? This is standard Quebec politics ... it doesn't mean that anything is going to happen. It's simply election time, so they roll out the same promises that they roll out election after election after election after election, hoping that the electorate is dumb enough to remember that it's a rehash, and there is no funding to do anything. Though judging by the reaction here, perhaps the electorate is dumb enough to not remember the last time they announced this. Here is the announcement for virtually the same thing before the 2001 election.
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Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ And Montreal's system isn't going to be like that?
And pardon my belief that Montreal's doing a lot better than us, but the DRL isn't quite in the planning phases yet, is it? They're like doing the study to see if they should do a study of how to do the study of the line. I wouldn't quite call that "ready to be built" like Montreal's lines are.
And pardon my belief that Montreal's doing a lot better than us, but the DRL isn't quite in the planning phases yet, is it? They're like doing the study to see if they should do a study of how to do the study of the line. I wouldn't quite call that "ready to be built" like Montreal's lines are.
nfitz
Superstar
Doing a lot better than us? The farce in Montreal has been going on for decades. In 1990 Montreal announced a 10-station, 20-km expansion that would be open in a few years. In 20 years, they have 3 stations and only 4 km. The one-station extension to Pie-IX along Jean Talon appeared on Metro maps as far back as at least 1980 ... perhaps we'll see it by 2020.
Montreal Metro expansion is not doing better than us, and hasn't since the 1980s.
nfitz
Superstar
How can you say that Montreal expansion plans are "ready-to-be-built"? They just commissioned (another) 3-year pre-design study ... that only costs $12-million. It's behind the Yonge and Spadina Extensions, the subway under Eglion ... and likely behind the DRL, given that it probably won't take TTC 3-years to the pre-design study (the advantage of funding the study yourself, rather than looking for government hand-outs to simply do the advance work). Perhaps the new Pie-IX station is ready to be built ... that's it.
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waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Yonge subway line north of Steeles far off
http://www.vaughantoday.ca/story.php?id=2028
TTC and Viva won't have analysis of future extension until late 2010
By Joshua Freeman
Story tools: EMAIL | PRINT | Bookmark and Share
Posted: 2009-10-16
If you’re dreaming of riding the rocket down Yonge St. from Hwy. 7, you will have to dream a while longer.
The Yonge North Subway Extension has at least two major hurdles to overcome before any work can be started: the added strain of expansion on the existing line and money.
This according to a consultants’ report of the project presented in July to Metrolinx, the body responsible for implementing the regional transportation plan for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area.
Before the Yonge extension can move forward, “a number of key network related considerations†must be addressed, the report states.
Those issues include the added cost in improvements to the Yonge-Bloor station, the subway yards strategy and a possible downtown relief line to reduce congestion on the Yonge-Bloor bottleneck.
“Metrolinx, in close collaboration with the City of Toronto, TTC and York Region, will undertake additional analysis to more comprehensively understand these matters and how they impact the network and project scope,†the report said.
That analysis is currently being conducted by the TTC and VIVA.
The document set a target date of late 2009 for the analysis to be completed. Vaughan Today recently learned the target date has been pushed back to late 2010.
No funding set aside yet, report suggests
The report also stated no funding has yet been allocated to the Yonge North Subway Extension project.
But Metrolinx says these obstacles are a natural part of the planning process and rebuffed the idea the project is off-track.
“There are a bunch of issues that we need to take the next few months to look at before we can recommend a funding commitment,†said John Howe, vice-president of investment strategy at Metrolinx. “We’re doing all of this to ensure that we’re going to achieve the best value for money for the taxpayer.â€
He pointed out that the project remains one of the top 15 priorities in The Big Move, the province’s regional transportation plan.
Yet some Vaughan officials have expressed frustration that other projects, such as Toronto’s light rail plans, have already been allocated funding from the province’s initial $11.5-billion commitment last year.
“Toronto got the money and we were left dead in the water,†Ward 5 councillor Alan Shefman said. “Money that had been intended for the Yonge extension is going to Toronto surface transit initiatives. The most intelligent transit you can build is an interconnected system and the largest interconnected system we have in the GTA is a subway system.â€
However, Howe was quick to point out the new VIVA bus rapid transit system for Yonge-Hwy. 7 is among the first five projects to have already received a funding commitment. The province has already allocated $1.4 billion to that project, which will service York Region. If all goes as planned, it will break ground this fall.
Howe said it’s understandable residents feel frustrated that work is not yet underway on projects like the subway extension.
“It’s difficult to keep pace with all the announcements and pre-announcements,†he said. “It’s important that we’re able to show taxpayers and customers that we can have a short time from the announcement to the shovel in the ground. We have to restore confidence that, yes, we can build transit again.â€
The July report on the Yonge-extension project examined three options for the Yonge north corridor: a bus rapid transit system, a five-stop subway and a six-stop subway. It concluded subway options provide higher service quality and more reliability than bus rapid transit.
It also estimated the incremental value of land development to be anywhere between $500 million and $1.2 billion for the subway options.
Metrolinx plans to re-examine the Yonge North Subway Extension when both the TTC and VIVA report back on the outstanding issues by late 2010.
Once those issues have been resolved, it will be up to the province to decide whether funding will be allocated to the project so that it can move ahead.
Metrolinx itself has undergone several big changes over the past few months. In May, the province replaced its board of politicians with a new 15-member group composed of individuals appointed by the province from the private sector. At the same time, GO Transit was merged into Metrolinx, empowering it to more comprehensively enforce The Big Move.
The plan, adopted by Metrolinx in November 2008, serves as the blueprint for developing the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area’s transportation infrastructure through 2020 in order to help it compete with other major urban regions in North America.
Most recently, former Torstar Corporation CEO Robert Prichard replaced Rob MacIsaac as Metrolinx chair. MacIsaac was recently named president of Mohawk College in Hamilton.
http://www.vaughantoday.ca/story.php?id=2028
TTC and Viva won't have analysis of future extension until late 2010
By Joshua Freeman
Story tools: EMAIL | PRINT | Bookmark and Share
Posted: 2009-10-16
If you’re dreaming of riding the rocket down Yonge St. from Hwy. 7, you will have to dream a while longer.
The Yonge North Subway Extension has at least two major hurdles to overcome before any work can be started: the added strain of expansion on the existing line and money.
This according to a consultants’ report of the project presented in July to Metrolinx, the body responsible for implementing the regional transportation plan for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area.
Before the Yonge extension can move forward, “a number of key network related considerations†must be addressed, the report states.
Those issues include the added cost in improvements to the Yonge-Bloor station, the subway yards strategy and a possible downtown relief line to reduce congestion on the Yonge-Bloor bottleneck.
“Metrolinx, in close collaboration with the City of Toronto, TTC and York Region, will undertake additional analysis to more comprehensively understand these matters and how they impact the network and project scope,†the report said.
That analysis is currently being conducted by the TTC and VIVA.
The document set a target date of late 2009 for the analysis to be completed. Vaughan Today recently learned the target date has been pushed back to late 2010.
No funding set aside yet, report suggests
The report also stated no funding has yet been allocated to the Yonge North Subway Extension project.
But Metrolinx says these obstacles are a natural part of the planning process and rebuffed the idea the project is off-track.
“There are a bunch of issues that we need to take the next few months to look at before we can recommend a funding commitment,†said John Howe, vice-president of investment strategy at Metrolinx. “We’re doing all of this to ensure that we’re going to achieve the best value for money for the taxpayer.â€
He pointed out that the project remains one of the top 15 priorities in The Big Move, the province’s regional transportation plan.
Yet some Vaughan officials have expressed frustration that other projects, such as Toronto’s light rail plans, have already been allocated funding from the province’s initial $11.5-billion commitment last year.
“Toronto got the money and we were left dead in the water,†Ward 5 councillor Alan Shefman said. “Money that had been intended for the Yonge extension is going to Toronto surface transit initiatives. The most intelligent transit you can build is an interconnected system and the largest interconnected system we have in the GTA is a subway system.â€
However, Howe was quick to point out the new VIVA bus rapid transit system for Yonge-Hwy. 7 is among the first five projects to have already received a funding commitment. The province has already allocated $1.4 billion to that project, which will service York Region. If all goes as planned, it will break ground this fall.
Howe said it’s understandable residents feel frustrated that work is not yet underway on projects like the subway extension.
“It’s difficult to keep pace with all the announcements and pre-announcements,†he said. “It’s important that we’re able to show taxpayers and customers that we can have a short time from the announcement to the shovel in the ground. We have to restore confidence that, yes, we can build transit again.â€
The July report on the Yonge-extension project examined three options for the Yonge north corridor: a bus rapid transit system, a five-stop subway and a six-stop subway. It concluded subway options provide higher service quality and more reliability than bus rapid transit.
It also estimated the incremental value of land development to be anywhere between $500 million and $1.2 billion for the subway options.
Metrolinx plans to re-examine the Yonge North Subway Extension when both the TTC and VIVA report back on the outstanding issues by late 2010.
Once those issues have been resolved, it will be up to the province to decide whether funding will be allocated to the project so that it can move ahead.
Metrolinx itself has undergone several big changes over the past few months. In May, the province replaced its board of politicians with a new 15-member group composed of individuals appointed by the province from the private sector. At the same time, GO Transit was merged into Metrolinx, empowering it to more comprehensively enforce The Big Move.
The plan, adopted by Metrolinx in November 2008, serves as the blueprint for developing the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area’s transportation infrastructure through 2020 in order to help it compete with other major urban regions in North America.
Most recently, former Torstar Corporation CEO Robert Prichard replaced Rob MacIsaac as Metrolinx chair. MacIsaac was recently named president of Mohawk College in Hamilton.
GTS
Active Member
WaterlooWarrior, thanks for the update on this project, it isn't as negative as I first thought when I read the headline. Their are just a few needed hurdles to overcome before this project becomes reality it sounds.
One obstacle mentioned in your update is the Bloor/Yonge bottleneck has to be overcome before this extension will be considered. I don't get on this message board that often because my work and family obligations come first, but, one thing I do have to face almost everyday is Toronto's transit system. My work does not take me downtown everyday of the week but the days I do have to navigate Bloor/Yonge at rush hour I feel sorry for those that have to face it everyday. Even if the Yonge extension doesn't happen, or if it is only extended to Steeles (my preference), the Yonge/Bloor exchange needs the funds to redesign it the way I read in a report I read after moving to this city.
If that problem is cleared up I hope it speeds up approval for the Yonge extension. It makes sense as well to do it in that order anyway.
One obstacle mentioned in your update is the Bloor/Yonge bottleneck has to be overcome before this extension will be considered. I don't get on this message board that often because my work and family obligations come first, but, one thing I do have to face almost everyday is Toronto's transit system. My work does not take me downtown everyday of the week but the days I do have to navigate Bloor/Yonge at rush hour I feel sorry for those that have to face it everyday. Even if the Yonge extension doesn't happen, or if it is only extended to Steeles (my preference), the Yonge/Bloor exchange needs the funds to redesign it the way I read in a report I read after moving to this city.
If that problem is cleared up I hope it speeds up approval for the Yonge extension. It makes sense as well to do it in that order anyway.
xtremesniper
Active Member
Anyone else tired of these "studies" taking a year or more to complete when we already know what the end result is going to be? Does it really have to take that long to get a bunch of people who get paid and are "professionals" to come to a conclusion on something that, if worked on full time should be done in a matter of weeks or months? What's wrong with these people?
And as stated by GTS, the Bloor/Yonge interchange needs an overhaul with or without this extension. If this extension gets people moving on funding a redesign of Bloor/Yonge, then isn't that a good thing? Same goes with the DRL. If this gets the DRL moving, then even better!
What's wrong with this society? Why are people not getting publicly upset about how long things take to get done? These people do this for a living. Nothing like this should take even 6 months to complete, let alone a year.
And as stated by GTS, the Bloor/Yonge interchange needs an overhaul with or without this extension. If this extension gets people moving on funding a redesign of Bloor/Yonge, then isn't that a good thing? Same goes with the DRL. If this gets the DRL moving, then even better!
What's wrong with this society? Why are people not getting publicly upset about how long things take to get done? These people do this for a living. Nothing like this should take even 6 months to complete, let alone a year.