Red Mars
Senior Member
Pics taken Dec 8, 2011
- Thread starter AlbertC
- Start date
Red Mars
Senior Member
Pic taken Feb 26, 2012
jdm3
New Member
have we determined whether there will be retail in the base of this condo? i'm excited for the additional density in the area - but the design leaves me a bit 'meh'.....
The crane went in today.
Red Mars
Senior Member
Pics taken Mar 14, 2012
AHK
Senior Member
Second crane going in today for the York Harbour Club site.
Dr. Snoot
Active Member
I was walking around here yesterday. I have to say it's one of the most isolated-feeling, miserable areas of the city, sandwiched between the Lakeshore and Gardiner, though to be fair it's still developing. I'm not sure where these people get their groceries. If the streetcar didn't run along Queen's Quay or up Bathurst along Fleet Street, this would be a disaster.
The only hope is that retail develops near Bathurst / Front Street, Fort York / Fleet Street (near the Ex, where there are a couple of parking lots), or moves to the very western edge of Queen's Quay.
One good thing that could come out of this is that there will be strong pressure to redevelop the old Food Bank Building at Bathurst and Lakeshore, which should be preserved and is in dire need of some loving.
The only hope is that retail develops near Bathurst / Front Street, Fort York / Fleet Street (near the Ex, where there are a couple of parking lots), or moves to the very western edge of Queen's Quay.
One good thing that could come out of this is that there will be strong pressure to redevelop the old Food Bank Building at Bathurst and Lakeshore, which should be preserved and is in dire need of some loving.
Xray_Crystal_Junkie
Senior Member
You'll be happy to know that it's already in the works and should be commencing soon.
CanadianNational
Senior Member
I really like all the slightly crooked in-and-out side streets nestled within this area. It's just a crime that all the new buildings going up here have not been ringed with retail and live-work spaces along their bases. With the amount of space at ground level that could have been made varied, commercial and colourful, this could have been one of the most interesting new areas of downtown - less rigid and more random than Cityplace. It could have been great to duck in and out of, and provided some comfort on the long stretch leading up to the Ex Grounds. Instead, it's disquietingly sterile, bought up and blank.
Maybe within in a few hundred years great lots of those ground-level townhomes will have changed over their uses enough to make this feel like a flexible, breathing part of the city. As for right now, it feels like a major lost opportunity. The area still isn't much of a joy to walk by, nor particularly offering of reasons to go in and explore.
Maybe within in a few hundred years great lots of those ground-level townhomes will have changed over their uses enough to make this feel like a flexible, breathing part of the city. As for right now, it feels like a major lost opportunity. The area still isn't much of a joy to walk by, nor particularly offering of reasons to go in and explore.
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gristle
Senior Member
It is a lost opportunity. As with Cityplace, the developers here also don't seem to understand city building. They construct condo apartments. That's it. Otherwise they are clueless as to what brings vibrancy to a neighbourhood.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Though I believe it should be a developer's obligation to build 'neighbourhoods,' that's not really their motive is it? They do construct 'condo apartments' and that is 'it.' Selling units and 'bringing vibrancy to a neighbourhood' aren't the same thing and having a glut of unleasable retail in a building not only increases one's vacancy (expressed as a %), it decreases EGI and therefore one's ability to meet IRR targets and move forward with additional projects.
Unfortunately there isn't a business model for 'city building,' especially in an inflated market like the one we are experiencing now. This is why we should be looking to beef up regulations like s.37 benefits and giving panels like the DRP more teeth. If they could award more height or density on the basis of good design (as is done in Vancouver), you have the ability to incentivize the creation of an excellent public realm. It's symbolic of the difference between planning by administration, as we do here, and planning by vision, which results in a noticeably better product. In the end, they are the ones building the buildings and it's up to us (the city, the public, etc.) to work with them, rather than against them to achieve the best results.
Unfortunately there isn't a business model for 'city building,' especially in an inflated market like the one we are experiencing now. This is why we should be looking to beef up regulations like s.37 benefits and giving panels like the DRP more teeth. If they could award more height or density on the basis of good design (as is done in Vancouver), you have the ability to incentivize the creation of an excellent public realm. It's symbolic of the difference between planning by administration, as we do here, and planning by vision, which results in a noticeably better product. In the end, they are the ones building the buildings and it's up to us (the city, the public, etc.) to work with them, rather than against them to achieve the best results.
WiddleBittyKitty
Felis catus
EGI? IRR? DRP? WTF?!
Okay, I know what the DRP is, but not everyone will. IIRC, we're supposed to write in English here!
Okay, I know what the DRP is, but not everyone will. IIRC, we're supposed to write in English here!
Torontovibe
Senior Member
It's maddening that this city can't produce new neighbourhoods that are lively, interesting, animated and beautiful. (or at least attractive) Both City Place and Fort York fail in this respect. Even Maple Leaf Square feels cold and uninviting. The funny thing is that Regent Park seems to be the most successful in integrating retail and residential, which is why it's a lot more animated. All these areas are not finished yet but I'll bet that Regent Park turns out to be the most successful of the three. I hope the builders of The West Don Lands have learned a few things from these neighbourhoods.
CanadianNational
Senior Member
Well, if the city were to boldly flip the zoning switch on all those ground-level townhomes - from 'residential' to 'commercial' - in one swoop the area would be come fascinating. Fascinating for all the legal battles, frayed tempers and upset, no doubt - but, after the dust had settled you'd have a plenitude of fine-grained narrow-fronted retail outlets perfect to stroll by - and cute little commercial streets.
Not that I'm holding my breath for such a thing to happen.
Not that I'm holding my breath for such a thing to happen.
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And that has been the status quo for a while now ...
Just walked by the development to the west (Neptune I think), and it looks like something retail is going in there along Fleet Street. Fingers crossed.