[asiancolossus]

Thinking of buying my first place, I've ruled out the detached home as I'm single and don't need all that space and the hassles of maintaining the property.

I'm between the age old debate of townhouse vs condo. Some points I've thought about:

- two floors will give me that home feel without walking in and seeing the entire layout of the place, kitchen, dining room, living room, bedroom
- I like the feeling of having a sleeping area on a different floor than the rest of the house, less of a claustrophobic feeling
- I am very worried about having enough natural lighting though with townhouses, the few I've seen, even if they have 9 foot ceilings and floor to ceiling windows, simply can't compete with corner unit condos that have abundant light. Some townhouses do have the back open whereas many have the back leading to a corridor and only light coming from one side of the house. Anyone who has problems with this?
- related to the above point, condos if they are in bigger buildings typicallly have a great view whereas townhouses and detached houses do not

Anyone has had this debate before they bought, I'd appreciate any insights for and against either option. Thanks

 

[Monaco]

Just based on units I've been to (friends/acquaintances)....have you considered loft-style condo units? Bedroom on the second floor, but open to the dining/living room below usually. Sometimes there is only one bathroom, and this can be inconvenient when guests come over if it is on the second floor. Tall 2-storey windows, depending on the direction, let in loads of light. However, it looks like it would be a bit of a pain to get appropriate window coverings, which I personally think are necessary to provide some darkening if the bedroom in the upstairs loft area is completely open.

 

[patrick]

Is there a particular neighbourhood you're interested in?

 

[asiancolossus]

Looking in the North York area, want to be close to the 401 and also the subway lines. I know there are a lot of developments in that area. Concord Place looks very interesting.

@monaco: Yes I do like lofts, however, like you said when you entertain, its nice to have a powder room in the main floor. Also lofts tend to be much shorter buildings right?

 

[lead82]

what is your budget range?

Condo's and townhouses in NYCC area have a huge price difference. You can get a decent sized condo for under $300K, but a townhouse, especially near Yonge will fetch for above $400K, closer to $500K. Also, would you want a freehold or condo townhouse? Some of the condo townhouses have outrageous maintenance fees, for providing very little in amenities. Something to keep in mind. Freeholds tend to be more expensive, but usually have no maintenance fees.

One thing to keep in mind is that a condo unit tends to have more light then most townhouses as you said yourself. As for having multiple levels, there are some 2-storey condo units, usually pent-houses available.

Personally, I think that townhouses tend to be very narrow as a result of having a stair-case that takes up space in the home. While, getting a similar sized condo may not feel as claustraphobic if the layout is good. It looks like you don't seem to like having an open concept style, where you can walk in and see the entire unit. Some of the older buildings tend to have larger foyer areas and some hallways between living and bedroom to separate the spaces.

It's a personal choice really. I tend to like having everything on one level, so I don't have to run up/down stairs all the time (since i'm lazy. )

 

[iSlutsky]

Looking in the North York area, want to be close to the 401 and also the subway lines. I know there are a lot of developments in that area. Concord Place looks very interesting.

@monaco: Yes I do like lofts, however, like you said when you entertain, its nice to have a powder room in the main floor. Also lofts tend to be much shorter buildings right?

Check out what is selling in North York and Bayview Village. Lots for sale, in an assortment of different building styles.

As for the debate between lofts and townhomes, there is one other option: two-storey condominium units. From the discussion above, it makes it seem that the only way to get a bedroom on a different level is in loft-style buildings or a loft-style layout; this is not true. There are many great condominium buildings (short and tall) with two storey layouts, and great layouts that are not loft-like. Further, many of these units in fact do have a powder-room or a washroom on the main floor.

However, beware of two storey layouts. If a two-storey layout is not completed properly, the result will be a waste of space and a unit with no flow.

 

[asiancolossus]

hey lead 82, I've settled on Concord Park Place. Per square foot, townhouses are a better deal than the condos, although the lack of windows surround the unit are definitely a concern. In addition, I really find it hard to get an impression of size of the rooms based on pictures and numbers. They always have this disclaimer section that says the developer can change anything as they wish. I really hope the space is equivalent to what they state, because what if they shrink the place by a few hundred square feet, would I be any the wiser?

Anyways, I decided that the two level thing is more important, I really like the area and its close to subways and the 401. The thread on Concord Park Place is definitely not a popular one, unlike Concord City Place. Wish I found someone who had bought there to chat with...by the way Islutsky they don't have two level condos or else I would have considered it.

I checked out Hullmark at Yonge and Sheppard, definitely a really nice development. But the biggest unit is 1513 square feet and they were charging 900K!!! I couldn't believe how expensive but its all about location there. Leslie and Sheppard is three subway stops away and their units are 350 to 400 per square foot, so I think its a better deal.

 

[lead82]

Hi asiancolosus,

I'm glad you found something you like. Did you purchase the unit yet or have you just settled on the development?

 

[simuls]

Per square foot, townhouses are a better deal than the condos, although the lack of windows surround the unit are definitely a concern. In addition, I really find it hard to get an impression of size of the rooms based on pictures and numbers. They always have this disclaimer section that says the developer can change anything as they wish. I really hope the space is equivalent to what they state, because what if they shrink the place by a few hundred square feet, would I be any the wiser?

Remove the amount of square feet of staircase in a townhome from your equation and do the math again, you might find that in terms of actual usable square feet, the condo's the better deal.

Also, builders are only allowed a 2% variance (smaller) than stated square footage by Tarion. It's important to get a layout in your contract (usually schedule "a" or "b") that has not only the total square footage, but also the dimensions of each room. That way you're better protected against any suprises.

 

[cdr108]

I checked out Hullmark at Yonge and Sheppard, definitely a really nice development. But the biggest unit is 1513 square feet and they were charging 900K!!! I couldn't believe how expensive but its all about location there. Leslie and Sheppard is three subway stops away and their units are 350 to 400 per square foot, so I think its a better deal.

since you mentioned the Yonge/Sheppard area, did you consider Savvy by Menkes?

they have 1700 sf townhomes from $560K
http://www.menkes.com/savvy-townhomes/

 

[asiancolossus]

cdr thanks for the Menkes link, I will check it out!

simuls, yes I forgot about the stairs, typically how many square foot does a staircase take?

I was comparing square footages and the townhouses were between 340 and 370 per square foot and the townhouses were around 400 per square foot. I can't imagine the staircases taking that much space.

 

[cdr108]

cdr thanks for the Menkes link, I will check it out!

simuls, yes I forgot about the stairs, typically how many square foot does a staircase take?

I was comparing square footages and the townhouses were between 340 and 370 per square foot and the townhouses were around 400 per square foot. I can't imagine the staircases taking that much space.

each staircase takes ~30sf per level, plus you have to add the SF for the hallway that's parallel to the staircase.

ie. if you have a 2s TH, expect ~ 120 sf will be dedicated to stairs + hallways (eg. 1s = 30sf stair + 30sf hall; 2s = 30sf stair + 30sf hall);

3s TH = 3 x 60s = 180sf

 

[asiancolossus]

Thanks cdr, I totally didn't realize that the staircases took so much space, and that they were figured into the square footage. Well subtracting the unit I bought (yes I bought, lead), it still seems like a better deal than the upper floor condos.

The did include stainless steel appliances, premium kitchen package including valance lighting, mirrored closet doors (although this made me laugh, it seems kind of vain!).

As this is my first purchase, I've been saving for over 8 years to get a place! I find these developers are quite sneaky, they can blab out any price or any concesssion or upgrade at a whim. It seems nicer North York developments go for 350 per square foot and up and the ones on the subway line like Hullmark go for 500 to 600 per square foot. I really wanted the location next to the subway and the proximity to the 401, so I do think that you pay quite the premium for location. I looked a bit into downtown but its far for me to travel, and the nicer developments are 400 per square foot at least. As the market has been fluctuating so much in the past year, I have NO idea what current fair value at this location is. Apparently the salesman told me last year was actually a bad year and that is why they had to delay it by a year. I just wish I got in March, apparently they were given 20% cash back deposits!

I hope everything goes ok, like I said it is next to impossible to envision what the place looks like just looking at a floorplan.