[golodhendil]

Not that I disagree with the point of your argument, but...
- Brussels
- Vienna
- Rio de Janiero

All converted premetros to true metros.

I stand corrected

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I wouldn't add York Mills as it is an awful corridor betwen Yonge and Leslie, and doesn't really have much in the way of riders except at Leslie and Don Mills (transfers and immediate walk-ups) and east of the DVP.

Would you build an Ellesmere/Parkwoods line, though, east of, say, Don Mills? Lawrence suffers from the same problem: the Yonge-Leslie section is a no-go for anything but the occasional bus, which splits Lawrence up into two corridors.

I don't know what vehicles can handle the hill on Wilson at Yonge...would a gentler sloping tunnel be needed?

 

[ShonTron]

Would you build an Ellesmere/Parkwoods line, though, east of, say, Don Mills? Lawrence suffers from the same problem: the Yonge-Leslie section is a no-go for anything but the occasional bus, which splits Lawrence up into two corridors.

No, because I think Ellesmere would be best served by an extension of the Bloor-Danforth and Sheppard subways and the existing buses. Lawrence East LRT via Don Mills to the NE DRL terminius station at Eglinton and Don Mills would be my pick.

Victoria Park would another decent choice for LRT.

A tunnel from Avenue Road sloping east would work for Wilson (no stops between Avenue and Yonge subway, local climbs to Yonge Blvd. would be handled by the 97A bus).

 

[Second_in_pie]

I'm confused by the long pining for the mythical "Scarborough to Pearson" route to begin with. Has the TTC ever carried out studies of where the Eglinton bus riders are coming from and going? I commute through Eglinton station's bus terminal daily and, anecdotally, I rarely see anyone get off the 32 and onto the the 34 or vice versa. That is hardly authoritative, but I wonder.

I guess part of the Eglinton subway's appeal is that Eglinton, bisecting the middle of the city and nearly every borough, is symbolically important. Probably why it is the only TC route to get a sexy name, Crosstown, too. Practically I can see a certain amount of "why not" with an Eglinton subway. If the underground segment is more or less going to be subway, and there is an open ROW on the western leg, the incremental costs of subway vs. LRT are pretty minor.

My ideal solution would be to run a subway in the central section, an LRT or busway through the Richview corridor to Jane or wherever the western subway terminus would be, and just run better bus service along the Eastern segment. Thats not bloody likely, so I have more or less resigned myself to the current Crosstown proposal. If done right, a big if, it should be okay.

I like this one a lot. Building the central part as Subway, with the West side as BRT along the Richview corridor and the East side just plain bus service just makes so much sense. It allows for easy future subway extension in both directions, and will provide the necessary service along the entire route. Subway from Keele through to Don Mills (to connect with the DRL) would be really useful. With a busway along the Richview Corridor to the Airport, I don't think there would be any need for expansion for a while.

So why doesn't the City do this?

 

[doady]

Wilson would have been great. Take out Sheppard, Don Mills, Jane, Morningside, Eglinton LRTs, and replace them with Wilson, Lawrence East, Kingston LRTs, ROWs for the existing streetcars, ROWs for major bus routes and then Transit City would have been great. In other words, if Transit City add been planned to complement the subway system and future subway extension with more than just LRT no one would complain. But it instead was planned from the very beginning to be LRT-only and designed to be an alternative to subway expansion (with no public input) which is why it fails to address the overcrowding problems or benefit downtown in any way, and that's why it sucks.

 

[unimaginative2]

The more I think about it, I'd also shift the Finch West line up to the hydro corridor. It'd be much faster and, contrary to what certain officials might have you believe, for much of the route there are a lot more people near the rail corridor than along Finch. York U, the apartments along Bathurst, much of Jane and Finch, etc.

As I tried to describe in my mega-post earlier, I really think fare integration and regional rail are the key to the next phase of transit planning in the City of Toronto. Even leaving aside all the benefits to the 905 (which really should be considered part of the same city), regional rail would massively expand access to rapid transit across the 416. If people could treat the routes as they do the subway today, with rapid transit frequencies all day, they could bring the entire city within reasonable distance of real rapid transit.

Longer distance trips to places like Kitchener, Barrie, and Peterborough should be served with regional express trains that could make major stops but require people to switch to frequent stop regional rail service to get to more minor stations. Along with better acceleration from electrification, that would allow the addition of stations within the 416 to make it more accessible to local riders.

 

[Second_in_pie]

The more I think about it, I'd also shift the Finch West line up to the hydro corridor. It'd be much faster and, contrary to what certain officials might have you believe, for much of the route there are a lot more people near the rail corridor than along Finch. York U, the apartments along Bathurst, much of Jane and Finch, etc.

I think that the Hydro Corridor should be used for a full express Go line, like the Midtown line. The corridor up from Kipling station is almost completely clear, save the odd parking lot and the complex around Finch Sation. It would connect a lot of different nodes, including the already existing stations on Milton, Georgetown and Richmond Hill lines, Kipling Station to the future Spadina extension and Finch Station. Across all of these stations, they would require you to make a very long commute to downtown to transfer to the different lines. It would also connect Etobicoke City Centre, Pearson Airport, Northern Etobicoke, Jane and Finch, York University, North York City Centre, Northern Scarborough and maybe even Scarborough Town Centre together. I really think this would be a project worthy of Go's attention, not to mention including it's regional importance.

 

[kEiThZ]

I dunno if this sounds like a crazy suggestion...but what about a combined Kingston-Morningside-Ellesmere LRT that originates at Main Station, continues eastward in a tunnel till Kingston, up Kingston till Morningisde, then up Morningside till Ellesmere then west to Scarborough Town Centre. I think Kingston has tons of potential for re-development and a wide road that offers ease of implementation for LRT. Feel free to call me nuts!

 

[Second_in_pie]

I dunno if this sounds like a crazy suggestion...but what about a combined Kingston-Morningside-Ellesmere LRT that originates at Main Station, continues eastward in a tunnel till Kingston, up Kingston till Morningisde, then up Morningside till Ellesmere then west to Scarborough Town Centre. I think Kingston has tons of potential for re-development and a wide road that offers ease of implementation for LRT. Feel free to call me nuts!

That would be pretty cool, but I think Kingston Road deserves it's own LRT. It could originate at the origin of the road at Queen, then just merge into the Highway 2 RT (which I think should be LRT.) If a Queen subway is ever built, Queen and Kingston road would be a great place to start the LRT, because then it's just a quick Subway ride to the core!

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

As I tried to describe in my mega-post earlier, I really think fare integration and regional rail are the key to the next phase of transit planning in the City of Toronto.

Great mega-post. I find it hard to pick major faults with it.

With TC2 I think focus should be optimizing usage of the "bones" provided by the first Transit City and expanding regional rail (as you've mentioned). Things like fare integration across the GTA and as far as Hamilton-Oshawa perhaps. Basically, lower the barriers to usage for most people, and simplify longer distance travel and provide more options for longer distances that don't terminate at Union.

 

[Eug]

I dunno if this sounds like a crazy suggestion...but what about a combined Kingston-Morningside-Ellesmere LRT that originates at Main Station, continues eastward in a tunnel till Kingston, up Kingston till Morningisde, then up Morningside till Ellesmere then west to Scarborough Town Centre. I think Kingston has tons of potential for re-development and a wide road that offers ease of implementation for LRT. Feel free to call me nuts!

That would be pretty cool, but I think Kingston Road deserves it's own LRT. It could originate at the origin of the road at Queen, then just merge into the Highway 2 RT (which I think should be LRT.) If a Queen subway is ever built, Queen and Kingston road would be a great place to start the LRT, because then it's just a quick Subway ride to the core!

There is already a plan in the works. It is BRT (and possible LRT in the future) from Victoria Park Station to Danforth Avenue, then along Kingston Road up to where it meets up with Eglinton (and the Scarborough Malvern LRT).

Here is a mockup of the design for such redevelopment of Kingston Road. The area below would be east of Birchmount and west of Midland.

The current road is 6 lanes in that area. The plan would have two lanes in the centre dedicated to BRT, four general traffic lanes (two in each direction), two bike lanes (one in each direction), and street parking on the north side. Right now on the south side there are strip malls, but with tons of parking in front. Ideally, that parking would disappear, with buildings moved up very close to the road, but with wide sidewalks. See the example below.

This picture is taken from the north side facing south. Note the parking on the left. In the mockup on the right the buildings would be moved much closer to the road. The BRT would likely necessitate removal of trees from the centre island, but new greenery would be planted along the sidewalks.

As for the organization of the LRT lines, I wonder if this could make sense:

Eglinton Crosstown line goes all the way east to Kingston Road and ends at Guildwood.
Scarborough Malvern line starts at Guildwood.
Kingston Road line starts at Vic Park in a tunnel, and then goes above ground on Danforth then to Kingston Road then ends at Guildwood.

Yeah I know, it's not very creative as it is using existing plans, but then again there's actually a possibility it could be designed this way. Plus, it would mean connecting up to Guildwood, which would help in TTC-ifying GO, with a common fare system.

However, would it make sense though to have duplicate LRT lines on Kingston Road between Eglinton and Guildwood? Could this cause a serious traffic snarlup? If it did, then the main mini-hub would have to be at the junction of Kingston and Eglinton.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Would you build an Ellesmere/Parkwoods line, though, east of, say, Don Mills? Lawrence suffers from the same problem: the Yonge-Leslie section is a no-go for anything but the occasional bus, which splits Lawrence up into two corridors.

I don't know what vehicles can handle the hill on Wilson at Yonge...would a gentler sloping tunnel be needed?

The light rail vehicles could tunnel at a swallow incline between Yonge and Avenue Road, instead of going up the hill a a steep incline. There is a similar option for the A line in Hamilton to handle the escarpment or the mountain (where the jog appears in the map below).

 

[Amphibius]

^^ If they're going to use Main Stn as the start off point they may as well run it along the Danforth and operate something else southwest of the Kennedy/Kingston/Danforth junction (perhaps retaining the existing 12 Kingston Rd bus, or reinstating streetcar ROW east of Bingham Loop).

That would be pretty cool, but I think Kingston Road deserves it's own LRT. It could originate at the origin of the road at Queen, then just merge into the Highway 2 RT (which I think should be LRT.) If a Queen subway is ever built, Queen and Kingston road would be a great place to start the LRT, because then it's just a quick Subway ride to the core!

That would only work out if a Coxwell Avenue alignment were chosen for the DRL as I don't think there'd ever be enough $$ for both that plus a Queen Subway.

 

[jwill]

I'd like to see an Ellesmere-Wilson line, continuing west of Weston Road along Dixon and into the airport. The eastern terminal could be at UTSC. It sets up a series of east-west routes about 4km apart (BD, Eglinton, Wilson-Ellesmere, Finch, 407 transitway).

I think its important to have a route serving Rexdale/Weston as well. I'd like a line starting from Eglinton/Weston (with connections to a future GO station, possibly even the DRL in the long term), going up weston road above the 401, then switching to Albion Road until the Albion Centre, then turning north up kipling, possibly going north of steeles to meet up with the nearest 407 transitway station.

This, along with the Finch West line gives the area much improved access to the greater transportation network. The finch line will connect quickly to the spadina subway, and possibly the barrie GO line, as well as a future woodbine GO station. Then this Albion road route would connect to the 407 transitway, Weston GO, future Eglinton GO, Eglinton LRT, Jane LRT, etc.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Looking at the lines just on the map, I noticed the big hole on Lawrence between Yonge and Don Mills. I would like to see a Lawrence LRT, both east and west, that would bridge that gap on its own private right-of-way between Bayview and Park Lane. However, I would suspect that some neighbours may be for or against any bridging of that gap.

In the west end of Lawrence, instead of just ending Lawrence at Weston, it could continue to Scarlett Road going north and continuing on Dixon Road to the airport strip of hotels and even going up Airport Road to Derry Road. The traffic on Airport Road is terrible and replacing it with an LRT on a right-of-way would be an improvement.