[The Mad Navigator]

In other news the East London Line will open up it's 9 newest stations to that line in a couple of weeks, and another 9 stations after that will be opened in a couple of years.

Move there then.

 

[sixrings]

Why Not just do the entire Eglinton LIne by subway and make a BD extension. At least eglinton serves a ton of people and the scarborough residents get a real hub at STC

 

[Fresh Start]

Yes, why are they keeping the SRT on life-support when the next five year can be spent building a stacked cut-n-cover tunnel to Scarborough Centre? And for that matter, why are we ripping up the community of Weston to give affluents their high expense paid excursion along Blue 22, when the Richview corridor is primed and ready for a trenched subway ROW en route to the airport?

The least politically divisive mass transit expansion going is subway construction. Period.

 

[kEiThZ]

Move there then.

Try and remember this sentiment the next time you feel the urge to cite some European paradise that's all sweetness and light because of their amazing tram system.

The real solution is a reasonable mix of subways, LRT, streetcars, buses, bus lanes, etc. Not a one-size-fits-all game plan. Look at all those cities people like to bring up. They have healthy mixes of regional rail, metros and light rail.

 

[Rainforest]

I wonder if they can justify LRT on Sheppard if you take Vic Park out of the equation. Will they still have enough ridership or does it drop back down to BRT/bus lanes level?

Unfortunately, we are getting all planning backwards on this project. The focal point is the carhouse at Conlins which must be built . Once it is built, you might as well build a line that it can serve. The line needs connection to the rest of network, so it must go to Don Mills; but if someone brings a few extra hundred millions to the table, then the LRT / subway junction might be moved eastward. By the time the potential decision to extend subway to Vic Park is made, ridership projections will not matter since much of the LRT will have been built.

Seriously, Sheppard East LRT per se is not too bad a project. The main problem is that it kicks out the potential rapid crosstown link which could be formed by extending Sheppard subway. But SELRT's own ridership might be decent by LRT standards, even if it ends at Vic Park. Much will depend on other connections it might get in future: DRL; Agincourt or Midtown GO; SLRT; Danforth subway extension beyond STC to Sheppard (??).

 

[M II A II R II K]

Another thing is since transit is the lifeblood of Toronto's economy or at least a significant part of it, why not consider the payoff in the long run when being asked to commit money initially to build new lines.

 

[nfitz]

This is all starting to look like the Ottawa mayoral run.

Which is exactly the concern I expressed last year, when the "it might cost a bit more, but we can make this better" fools started gyrating last year.

Congratulations Toronto ... you've demonstrated why so little happens in this city. If there was a gold medal for naval-gazing it would be Toronto's. Historically I'd have said Seattle - but they actually seem to be getting things together a bit.

 

[nfitz]

Why Not just do the entire Eglinton LIne by subway and make a BD extension. At least eglinton serves a ton of people and the scarborough residents get a real hub at STC

A - because the projected passenger demand barely supports LRT, let alone subway. B - because there isn't the funding for LRT, let alone subway.

 

[unimaginative2]

This is all starting to look like the Ottawa mayoral run.

I gotta say I was horrified during the last Ottawa election, but they've wound up with a far better plan than the one they had before.

Which is exactly the concern I expressed last year, when the "it might cost a bit more, but we can make this better" fools started gyrating last year.

That's a personal attack.

A - becuase the projected passenger demand barely supports LRT, let alone subway.

Uh, are these the studies that claim that the exact same number of people would ride a bus lane as a subway? Yeah? I thought so.

 

[nfitz]

Uh, are these the studies that claim that the exact same number of people would ride a bus lane as a subway? Yeah? I thought so.

There are no such studies. Stop pulling it out of your imagination.

 

[LAz]

Make it happen, for the love of god make it happen!

 

[kEiThZ]

I gotta say I was horrified during the last Ottawa election, but they've wound up with a far better plan than the one they had before.

+1

Not only that. The feds are actually likely to pitch in more than they were before.

The delay in Ottawa was, of course, disappointing. But they've ended up with a plan that will actually service the most commuters (instead of just building for the sake of building something). They've ended up with a fully grade-separated exclusive ROW the whole way. The plan is future proof and will handle growth for decades in Ottawa. It's actually affordable enough, that if the feds and the province don't pony their fair share, the city can (and is willing to) acutally pick up the difference and push the project too. And the EA is already under way.

 

[unimaginative2]

There are no such studies. Stop pulling it out of your imagination.

That's a personal attack.

Wow. So you're either lying or you haven't read any of these studies you like to talk about.

Here's the Eglinton study:
"The ridership forecast for the year 2031 at the location with the highest demand in this corridor is 5,400 passengers per hour in one direction."
Go to Page 7. Then they apply that forecast to all the different modes with that pretty chart that pops up everywhere and deems that Subway requires 10,000 pph, LRT 1000-13,000 pph, etc. They declare that since it's 5,400 per hour, LRT is ideal. They applied the same forecast to every mode, from BRT to subway. Which is exactly what I said.

 

[nfitz]

That's a personal attack.

How is that a personal attack? Your making stuff up.

They declare that since it's 5,400 per hour, LRT is ideal. They applied the same forecast to every mode, from BRT to subway. Which is exactly what I said.

That's the predicted LRT usage. They don't show the predicted ridership by subway. Though given that frequent 30+ km/hr LRT barely draws 5,000, I can't imagine that the subway ridership would me much higher. It might even be lower with the less frequent trains, and (presumably) shorter line.

Using that example to say they are predicting the same 5,400 per hour by subway, bus, or milk float is dishonest and misleading. Stick to the facts.

 

[unimaginative2]

How is that a personal attack? Your making stuff up.

What's my making?

That's the predicted LRT usage. They don't show the predicted ridership by subway. Though given that frequent 30+ km/hr LRT barely draws 5,000, I can't imagine that the subway ridership would me much higher. It might even be lower with the less frequent trains, and (presumably) shorter line.

No, it's not. Read the report. It's plain as day: 5,400 is the projected ridership. That's given as the exact reason that they dismiss the BRT, SRT and subway modes. They even have that little chart where they draw a line at 5,400 and then cross out the other modes because it isn't in their sweet spot. If you read the reports you're talking about, it makes sticking to the facts much easier. But seriously...I recognize why it's so unbelievable to you. It's unbelievable to me, too. It makes absolutely no sense.

Just for greater clarity and if you don't feel like clicking the link and discovering the awful truth, here's the relevant passage:

The ridership forecast for the year 2031 at the location with the highest demand in this corridor is 5,400 passengers per hour in one direction.

The forecast travel demand falls below the minimum 10,000 people per hour required to support the massive capital investment of a subway. It also falls below the minimum 8,000 people per hour required to support the capital investment of Scarborough Rapid Transit (SRT) technology.

The forecast travel demand falls within the upper range for Bus/Bus Rapid Transit (BRT); however this technology has limited ability to serve any potential ridership increase in the corridor above the forecast. As such Bus/BRT, SRT-style technology
and Subway/GO were not carried forward as transit technologies. LRT is the preferred technology for the Eglinton corridor.

The "forecast travel demand" doesn't change regardless of the mode being examined.