M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Why not start a bunch of EA processes that are open ended, and when it comes time to want to build something the EA process will have already been done and won't have to wait for that process.
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However Hurontario is unfunded, along with the Don Mills LRT and the Jane LRT.Hurontario needs 36 LRVs for 2015-2021, and 72 for after 2021.
So we can take the 35 that were to go to Sheppard, plus maybe some extra from the SRT. Let's round it to 40 LRVs to Hurontario. That leaves 43 from the SRT. Give maybe 30-40 of them to Hamilton. Redeploy the remaining 8-18 LRVs on Eglinton or give them to Ottawa.
Average daily ridership (weekdays)
Yonge-University-Spadina (Toronto)
30.2 Km
32 Stations
714,210
Bloor-Danforth (Toronto)
26.2 Km
31 Stations
495,280
Chicago Red Line
37.7 Km
34 Stations
248,844
Chicago Blue Line
55.7 Km
33 4Stations
154,012
Brown Line
18.3 Km
28 Stations
98,307
Green Line
33.5 Km
29 Stations
65,156
Orange Line
20.1 Km
17 Stations
55,787
Sheppard Subway (North York-Toronto)
5.5Km --Not going Downtown
5 Stations
47,700
Purple Line
24 Km
19 Stations
39,799
Scarborough RT (Scarborough-Toronto)
6.4 Km
6 Stations
39,320
Pink Line
18 Km
13,461
Yellow Line
8.2 Km
2 Stations
4,980
Sheppard outperforms some of Chicago's line who are way longer and have more stations...without going downtown Toronto. With an extension to downsview, the ridership would go way higher and if you add Victoria Park, then Agincourt and STC...The ridership more than justified HRT. Don't forget that York and Durham riders will use it as well.
I have no doubt that Eglinton's number would be higher. One thing's clear is that overcrowding our subway lines is not being successful. Those numbers on the Bloor and Yonge lines shows how bad we need the DRL (which should have been priority #1 from day 1...NOT SELRT)
Hurontario needs 36 LRVs for 2015-2021, and 72 for after 2021.
So we can take the 35 that were to go to Sheppard, plus maybe some extra from the SRT. Let's round it to 40 LRVs to Hurontario. That leaves 43 from the SRT. Give maybe 30-40 of them to Hamilton. Redeploy the remaining 8-18 LRVs on Eglinton or give them to Ottawa.
Most of the people using Sheppard are just transferring from the bus to continue their trip to the Yonge line to go south. Similar situation on the SRT with people going west. It's disingenuous to suggest the trips don't have anything to do with downtown. It's a glorified overbuilt feeder route. Using numbers in that manner, you could rationalize building subways under every third Toronto street.
It goes without saying that most American BRT, LRT, and HRT systems are way overbuilt and operate at enormous losses that would make Rob Ford blush. You may gloss over this fact whenever you're talking about this subject but it's not something that can be ignored.
It's very strange that the Hurontario LRT is being so well received by certain people here who won't accept any less than subway under Sheppard when the projected demand of Hurontario in 2031 is well beyond Sheppard's wildest dreams.
A completed Sheppard Subway from Downsview to STC would allow people to easily travel all the way from Scarborough Centre to Vaughan Centre (transferring at Downsview), and everywhere in between (south on Spadina/University/south on Yonge/north to Finch/south along the Danforth line).
If Sheppard were being built from scratch today, most people might choose LRT, sure. But it's all too convenient for LRTistas to ignore the fact that SHEPPARD ALREADY HAS A SUBWAY RUNNING UNDER IT.
Metrolinx's plan is about connecting Urban Growth Centres. Sheppard would connect two directly (NYC & SCC) and quickly. Beyond STC/SCC you can have express buses.
Again, LRT is quite appropriate along many corridors (Hamilton, Hurontario, Finch) but not along others (Sheppard, DRL)
Just curious if you are aware of any demand numbers for traveling from STC to VCC, let alone those who would even consider taking a subway to do so?
Both MCC and Brampton downtown are Urban Growth Centres
Then we should put streetcars everywhere...
That will definately solve transit problems and gridlock in this city...
Not once you brought up the fact that I was willing to compromise for LRT on Sheppard if it was rapid transit.
Miller advertized it as such, then we realized it wasn't...
Did you advocate to make SELRT faster with those proposals (longer stop spacing with parallele bus service and route to STC)
Or did you just want it as is because Miller said so?
With that, SELRT was still not the best solution but a compromise acceptable to alot of people, me included.
Just like yourself, Miller and his gang wouldn't hear and people got fed up with the attitude.
SELRT is dead because people wouldn't compromise...TTC wouldn't compromise.
They refused to run a local bus service, which led people to ask for a stop pacing of 400m. For the rest, they didn't care...AT ALL
I was against SELRT because it was not going to STC and was not rapid transit.
Did you advocate for these 2 compromise? So far I haven't seen it.
Just curious if you are aware of any demand numbers for traveling from STC to VCC, let alone those who would even consider taking a subway to do so?
There is a good test for demand at least from Yonge to Downsview - the 196 runs an express branch between the two with only a single stop at Bathurst. At peak times it runs every 6 minutes (as opposed to the every 2 minutes for the part of the route from Downsview to York U). Surely many (most?) of those people who would be choosing instead to go south via Spadina instead of the packed Yonge line would be taking advantage of that offering.
I wouldn't put a bus (with not all that many actually getting off at Downsview) every 6 minutes as justifying a subway, but then I'm not keen on gravy train spending where it isn't warranted.