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- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
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GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
So lost in the news of today was the fact that the revised transit plan will not be ready in time to be presented at the February 2nd TTC meeting. Munro says he's hearing late February or even March.
I'd assume it's because the sides are having trouble coming to a compromise.
I'd assume it's because the sides are having trouble coming to a compromise.
Northern Magus
Active Member
As I understand it, Ford instructed the TTC to prepare a fully costed alternate plan. They're not brokering a compromise agreement since they don't deal directly with the Province on this.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if their initial findings were that Ford's proposal costs far too much and can't be delivered by 2015 like he promised.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if their initial findings were that Ford's proposal costs far too much and can't be delivered by 2015 like he promised.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Well, no subway line can be delivered by 2015. That's crazy.
By all appearances, Metrolinx *is* involved in the drafting of a revised plan. It's mentioned at the bottom of this article: http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/0...-floated-idea-of-handing-off-ttc-to-province/
By all appearances, Metrolinx *is* involved in the drafting of a revised plan. It's mentioned at the bottom of this article: http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/0...-floated-idea-of-handing-off-ttc-to-province/
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Eglinton is not being built as pre-metro. Originally they talked about that but initial diagrams suggest they aren't taking upgrade-ability to metro very seriously. Firstly pre-metro tends to have escalators and elevators land at high-platform height and have stairs and ramps to low-platform level for accessing trams. This allows raising the platforms a relatively trivial task which can be accomplished over the weekend with a temporary installation that is gradually replaced with permanent floor. Secondly they plan on using standard gauge which is not the gauge of Toronto's subway system. Thirdly, there is no plan for building the connecting tunnels between the Eglinton line and either the Yonge or Spadina line while they already have those locations under construction which suggests no intent to be able to move equipment to the existing yards. There are numerous other points which can be made about station wall and crossover positioning, tunnel design, and portal design that show there has been no effort to design something that is pre-metro.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Yes, the only route that could have been delivered is the Sheppard East LRT. Even the Spadina-York extension will not be done in time for the Pan Am Games.
Dan416
Senior Member
It's too bad Miller & Giambrone had to waste time by changing plans on a dime. Seems like plans change every time we get a new mayor.
nfitz
Superstar
They keep saying that ... on the other hand if they stick to schedule, from the project time frame, they will already be running test trains by the time the Pan-Am games go. I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to run some limited service to one or two stations near the athletic facilities at York during the games.
nfitz
Superstar
On a dime? They changed the plan in 2007 after about a quarter-century of waiting for funding for Sheppard. They got their alternative fully funded very quickly. I don't believe for a second that Ford's promise of Downsview to Scarborough Centre will be fully funded when he leaves office.
lafard
Active Member
If you look at the documents, the Sheppard subway was really last mentioned in teh Rapid Transit expansion study. After that it quietly fell off the radar.
Miller had a mandate, a larger one percentagewise than Ford did, to build LRTs. It's what the people wanted.
Miller had a mandate, a larger one percentagewise than Ford did, to build LRTs. It's what the people wanted.
accura407
Car is King
How about they put an Ultimatum of a sort...
The people along the Sheppard Corridor from Allen Road to Kennedy Road must agree to a high density land use change that provisions very large scale developements along each proposed subway station (Also adding Willowdale Station to the existing line)
Then residents within a 2km buffer of Sheppard can vote on it and if it is approved, the subway is built. If it is rejected, then no subway.
When I say high density nodes, it just means the type of development that has been springing up along Sheppard @ Yonge, Bayview, Leslie, and Don Mills
The areas in between the subway stations can remain as-is for the time being and redevelop as the market chooses.
From McCowan Rd Eastwards, it should remain in its low density suburban character with no change.
The people along the Sheppard Corridor from Allen Road to Kennedy Road must agree to a high density land use change that provisions very large scale developements along each proposed subway station (Also adding Willowdale Station to the existing line)
Then residents within a 2km buffer of Sheppard can vote on it and if it is approved, the subway is built. If it is rejected, then no subway.
When I say high density nodes, it just means the type of development that has been springing up along Sheppard @ Yonge, Bayview, Leslie, and Don Mills
The areas in between the subway stations can remain as-is for the time being and redevelop as the market chooses.
From McCowan Rd Eastwards, it should remain in its low density suburban character with no change.
nfitz
Superstar
It was recommended more recently than that. It was recommended in the 2003 Ridership Growth Strategy (RGS) report ... which is ironically the start of Transit City. Though I guess Miller didn't push it as much as he pushed the Spadina extension. Still, by 2003, it was over 20 years since the line had been discussed, with no funding. Even the original section only happened because Metro Toronto decided to go it alone, initially without any provincial or federal funding.
sixrings
Senior Member
Could they not interline the new extension to Vaughn with a sheppard west extension from downsview to victoria park?
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Yes they could but why would they? What percentage of people on the Sheppard Line want to go north on the Spadina line, and what percentage south? What percentage on the north part of the Spadina line want to continue south and what percentage want to head east? Really interlining only makes sense when there is an obvious travel pattern rather than an all direction split. The added complexity to the end user and scheduling dependencies would make it less desirable than a straight transfer because it is easy to tell someone to take any train that shows up at a platform rather than every other or every third train.
golodhendil
Active Member
But a premetro requires none of those. Basically the only system in the world right now that satisfies this "conversion-ready" criterion, as far as I recall, is Brussels. All other LF systems, be it Boston, Cologne, Porto, Hague, and even ones named "Premetro" (such as Antwerp) do not have upgrade-ready platforms. That might have been the original definition of the term when it was invented for Brussels in the 60s, but that principle had not been followed in any subsequent systems, nor in any of the previously-built lines (and equivalents in other languages, especially Stadtbahn) that have been grouped together due to operational similarity, nor the other of the only two LF systems that actually was converted to HRT operations (Vienna). So that is either a useless name, or an irrelevant definition.
Interline-ability and gauge difference are even more superfluous. Plenty of systems around the world, even counting only their HRT lines, have lines that intersect but cannot connect, lines that use non-interoperable rolling stock, and even lines with different gauges. These criteria are as relevant as whether something uses third rail or overhead.
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