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Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.2%

  • Ford City

    Votes: 25 20.8%
  • Total voters
    120
Asterix said:
Isn't the whole thing up in the air? Ford's math just doesn't add up.

Even if you take the money from the surface stretch of the Eglinton line (depriving thousands of better service) and the money from the Finch West line (depriving more surburbanites of better service) do you have enough money left to build Sheppard to STC AND replace the SRT with subway (which would require a completely new alignment, instead of an LRT running down the existing corridor)?

Remember also that Ford has repeatedly said his first priority is Sheppard, i.e. before Eglinton. Metrolinx has said they don't have the money for both.

Maybe that's why this new Ford-mandated plan from the TTC is being put off another month or more. No matter how much they try, they can't make 2 + 2 = 5.
Click to expand...

Kennedy-STC Corridor: $1.4B (TC), $1.9B (subway)
Eglinton LRT: $4.6B
Sheppard: $0.95B (TC), ?? (subway)
Finch West LRT: $1.2B

Total for TC: $8.15B

Therefore, in order to get a Sheppard subway, it would have to cost less than $2.15B if they were going with the SRT replacement, and $1.65B if they were going with the subway to STC.

If they did the SRT as ICTS or LRT, they could conceivably get a Sheppard West extension, or for sure a Sheppard East extension to Vic Park, with a bit left over for BRT.
 
gweed123 said:
Kennedy-STC Corridor: $1.4B (TC), $1.9B (subway)
Eglinton LRT: $4.6B
Sheppard: $0.95B (TC), ?? (subway)
Finch West LRT: $1.2B

Total for TC: $8.15B

Therefore, in order to get a Sheppard subway, it would have to cost less than $2.15B if they were going with the SRT replacement, and $1.65B if they were going with the subway to STC.

If they did the SRT as ICTS or LRT, they could conceivably get a Sheppard West extension, or for sure a Sheppard East extension to Vic Park, with a bit left over for BRT.
Click to expand...

I did my own number crunching based on TTC estimates earlier this week and came up with this:

The short of it is that to build the currently planned Eglinton LRT, extend the Sheppard Subway to Scarborough Town Centre and replace the Scarborough RT with a Bloor-Danforth subway extension we’ll need to spend 13.27 billion dollars. Current provincial funding commitments amount to 10.94 billion dollars. (I’m not taking into account any penalties or fees the city will have to pay after breaking/renegotiating contracts, but they’re likely to happen.)

That leaves 2.33 billion dollars as a gap. You could save a bit by chopping some of the Eglinton surface section, but surface rail on Eglinton isn't costing you 2 billion dollars.

This is all based on this briefing document prepared by the TTC, by the way: http://stevemunro.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/201012TTCBriefing.pdf
 
GraphicMatt said:
My one thought is that they'll start getting creative and float Eglinton as a Public-Private Partnership with Bombardier building and operating the line.
Click to expand...

Considering that Bombardier would love to use that line as a showcase for Mark II, they may just go for it.
 
GraphicMatt said:
I did my own number crunching based on TTC estimates earlier this week and came up with this:

The short of it is that to build the currently planned Eglinton LRT, extend the Sheppard Subway to Scarborough Town Centre and replace the Scarborough RT with a Bloor-Danforth subway extension we’ll need to spend 13.27 billion dollars. Current provincial funding commitments amount to 10.94 billion dollars. (I’m not taking into account any penalties or fees the city will have to pay after breaking/renegotiating contracts, but they’re likely to happen.)

That leaves 2.33 billion dollars as a gap. You could save a bit by chopping some of the Eglinton surface section, but surface rail on Eglinton isn't costing you 2 billion dollars.

This is all based on this briefing document prepared by the TTC, by the way: http://stevemunro.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/201012TTCBriefing.pdf
Click to expand...

Same numbers, just worked about a different way. I looked at what are the 'for sure' elements (Eglinton, connection to STC via the Kennedy-STC corridor), and then worked it backwards from there. "Given those funding commitments, how much do we have left to work with?"

I think they'll do those 2, and then use whatever is left over to get as far on Sheppard as they can. And then later on, go for more funding.
 
GraphicMatt said:
That leaves 2.33 billion dollars as a gap. You could save a bit by chopping some of the Eglinton surface section, but surface rail on Eglinton isn't costing you 2 billion dollars.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the billion dollars that ford claims he can get from private developers, (the majority of which he want to spend on roads),

Of course this idea comes from the same mayor who thinks that requiring developers to buy Metropasses is a cash grab.
 
How about they give the entire Eglinton Corridor for P3 and as an incentive they can also take over the existing Scarborough RT.

The result would be an entire rapid transit line that is operated by a Private Entity for 35 Yrs from Airport to Malvern Town Centre.

I have no idea what the costs for such a project would cost but I'm sure it can be accomplished with the same funds we have allocated today but we get rapid transit that extends right across the city.

With automated trains and automated fare entry, it could possibly be a profitable business during rush hours...

Canada Line is the best example of P3 out there! Why can't we get something like that? 20+km for 2.4Billion!
 
accura407 said:
I have no idea what the costs for such a project would cost but I'm sure it can be accomplished with the same funds we have allocated today but we get rapid transit that extends right across the city.
Click to expand...

Do you not see the blatant contradiction in this statement?

How can you be sure it can be accomplished with the same funds if you have no idea what the costs are?

How would a third party owning/operating individual lines work in practice? Would you pay a TTC fare to get on the bus to take you to the LRT and then pay the P3 another premium fare to ride their LRT?
 
Ed Drass said:
I see no mention of either the revised "Transit Plan for Toronto" or the proposed bus cuts:
http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...eetings/2011/February_2_2011/Agenda/index.jsp

Was there an updated official statement of when these go to the commission?

ed
Click to expand...

No official statement on the new Transit Plan - just quiet word that it wouldn't be ready for Feb 2nd. Not sure why discussion of the bus route cuts isn't on there - the commission has to vote on that, right?
 
gweed123 said:
What company wouldn't want to showcase their technology in a real-world application as the centrepiece of a major city's transit plan?
Click to expand...

Ok, so you are saying you don't really know if "Bombardier would love to use that line as a showcase for Mark II" or if they would love to use the line to showcase their other LRT technology as per their current contracts, but rather just making suppositions presented as facts.

If you can point me to any statement from BBD that suggests their feelings on the matter, I'm open to seeing it.
 
GraphicMatt said:
Not sure why discussion of the bus route cuts isn't on there
Click to expand...
I don't see how it could be on there without there being huge criticism of the TTC. The final meeting isn't until tonight, so presumably the report isn't completed yet (as if ...).

I'd expect to see it on the supplementary agenda, which usually comes out a day or two before hand.
 
Asterix said:
Ok, so you are saying you don't really know if "Bombardier would love to use that line as a showcase for Mark II" or if they would love to use the line to showcase their other LRT technology as per their current contracts, but rather just making suppositions presented as facts.

If you can point me to any statement from BBD that suggests their feelings on the matter, I'm open to seeing it.
Click to expand...

Well I would imagine that it wouldn't make much sense for Bombardier to release a statement like "we know you've already given us a multi-million dollar contract, but we'd much rather have this multi-billion dollar contract instead". It wouldn't make much business sense to publicly say that. Any discussions on that would have likely happened behind closed doors with Metrolinx.

But as a company, who's main goal is profits, I ask again, why wouldn't they want to showcase their Mark II ICTS technology, if given the choice? If they could trade a multi-million dollar contract for a multi-billion dollar one, why wouldn't they? Why would they say 'no' to more money?
 
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