[GenerationW]

While Sheppard is a priority for Ford, and it was a priority for Miller, I don't really think that it's a priority for Metrolinx. Their main focus is on lines with regional benefit. While it could be argued that Sheppard would be because of the connection to STC, I still think that a connection from the south is much more of a priority. And Metrolinx considers the Eglinton line to be the centrepiece of the 1st phase of the Big Move (connection to Pearson, regional implications, pretty much hits most of the '10 targets' all in 1 line). They're not going to let it die without a fight. Ford can get out of the Sheppard jam by saying "well, I got us a subway on Eglinton" (even though he didn't), so it wouldn't be like he's 100% backing out on his promise. Most of the people in the city probably don't even know that Sheppard is his top priority, they just know that he wants subways. Most voters have the political memory of Goldfish, so come next election, he can say he delivered subways, regardless of what happens on Sheppard (assuming Eglinton gets built).

EDIT: Ford strictly speaking won't have a post-election plan. The plan will be a combination of what Ford wants, what the TTC wants, and what Metrolinx wants. Them each publicizing separate plans is a recipe for a political disaster. Better to compromise behind closed doors, and then present to the public a unified plan.

I see Ford and the TTC as pretty much one and the same. And despite some apparent opposition, Metrolinx basically ended up rubber-stamping whatever Miller & Giambrone wanted for Transit City as far as I remember. What fights did Metrolinx win back then? Only when Queen's Park suddenly reduced funding did Metrolinx have any kind of a direct impact on TC, and that only involved shortening already approved routes.

Does Metrolinx have more say at this time because there are now signed TC contracts that went directly through Metrolinx? Maybe, but I think Ford and the TTC are still the ones pulling the cart.

And again, it can't be stressed enough that there is Federal funding for transit that is specific to Sheppard, and that some of the work is already underway. I believe this means there is no chance that nothing will be built on Sheppard, and since it almost certainly won't be LRT, it can only be one other thing in Ford's universe.

 

[gweed123]

I see Ford and the TTC as pretty much one and the same. And despite some apparent opposition, Metrolinx basically ended up rubber-stamping whatever Miller & Giambrone wanted for Transit City as far as I remember. What fights did Metrolinx win back then? Only when Queen's Park suddenly reduced funding did Metrolinx have any kind of a direct impact on TC, and that only involved shortening already approved routes.

Does Metrolinx have more say at this time because there are now signed TC contracts that went directly through Metrolinx? Maybe, but I think Ford and the TTC are still the ones pulling the cart.

I think part of the reason that TC was rubber-stamped by Metrolinx is the fact that TC predates Metrolinx by over a year. It would have been much harder for Metrolinx to come into the process mid-stream and start demanding changes left right and centre. So rather than setting up a battle ground over issues, causing even more delays, they went along with it. This time around however, they're in on the process on the ground floor, so they have more of an opportunity to put their stamp on it, rather than being just a rubber stamp.

And I don't see the TTC and Ford as one and the same. It's quite clear that the TTC did not want these changes, the only reason they're doing them is because they're mandated to do them. If they're making changes they don't agree with, I would think they're going to do only the minimum amount of changes they need to make in order to keep Ford happy.

And again, it can't be stressed enough that there is Federal funding for transit that is specific to Sheppard, and that some of the work is already underway. I believe this means there is no chance that nothing will be built on Sheppard, and since it almost certainly won't be LRT, it can only be one other thing in Ford's universe.

Good point. It could also be that they'll just use the Federal money for the Agincourt grade-separation, and maybe some strategic upgrading to the bus service along Sheppard, and then use the $600M in provincial funding and shift it elsewhere (unless the Fed funding was conditional on the provincial funding being there. I don't know, I haven't read the contract).

 

[Ed Drass]

conspiracies under every rock...

No ... but in the past, these last minute reports have often been on the supplementary agenda, not the main agenda.

Yes, it is true the cuts were announced less than a month ago ... but I don't see how a related report qualifies as 'last minute', like the sudden rush to vote on essential service. You just put the topic on the agenda and mark it "Report to Follow" or some such, no? It must be an obscure procedural thing or else it was overlooked (!) -- or there is a desire to affect the number of deputations. Or the cuts are not in a report at all ...

We shall see.

And closer to this topic... what's to stop the commission from introducing the LRT v. Subway report at the last minute, with the result that citizens have difficulty preparing to depute? (And do they still call it deputing?)

ed

 

[ssiguy2]

Certainly a good chunk of the Sheppard Line from the feds and province will be able to still be used. One of the largest costs of the whole project was the further station interchange at Don Mills and the tunnel to Consumers. The amount spent for the new streetcar underground station could be used for a new east station and the cost for underground subway or undergroun LRT is basically the same. That part of the project could continue and I can't imagine there would be any bitching from the feds or province and certainly none from Ford.

 

[drum118]

ALL VERY TRUE, BUT THE PRIME CONSIDERATION IS MISSING

Most important of all, Calgary Light Rail moves people for about 27 cents per passenger-mile, compared to 81 cents by bus and 67 cents by auto, plus downtown parking if applicable.

If Calgary had no Light Rail and half its passengers had to ride buses and the other half drive, It would add $ 97 million a year to bus costs with probably less revenue, and add $ 225 million to automobile costs including downtown parking. $ 322 million more costs for the local people to bear each year. That would ruin the city. You can't have what you can't pay for.

Toronto Mayor Ford can win the automobile vote but he can't make it work in the inner city.

The Globe and Mail has posted a column by Marcus Gee about light rail in Calgary which says it works and ought to be an object lesson to Toronto Mayor Rob Ford whose first act as mayor was to declare "Transit City" LRT a dead issue. He wants heavy rail rapid transit subways, not surface LRT. Ford thinks subways are preferable during frigid snowfalls. But Gee says LRT runs in snow at both Calgary and Edmonton (full text):
"For light rail that works, look no further than Calgary
MARCUS GEE | Columnist
CALGARY— From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Published Friday, Jan. 28, 2011 8:05PM EST
Last updated Friday, Jan. 28, 2011 8:07PM EST

(graphic caption)
Infographic
Sheppard East LRT vs Rob Ford's subway plan

(article)
Mayor Rob Ford has left no confusion about how he feels about light-rail transit. One of his first acts as mayor was to declare the death of Transit City, a multibillion-dollar plan for a network of above-ground transit lines.

Listening to Mr. Ford, you might get the impression that LRT is a crazy scheme cooked up by his predecessor, David Miller, to frustrate motorists. In fact, light-rail systems operate in dozens of cities, from Portland and Phoenix to Salzburg and Toulouse. One of the more successful is right here in Canada.

Calgary's C-Train, which celebrates its 30th anniversary this year, is the second busiest LRT in North America, outdone only by a system in Monterrey, Mexico. It carries 270,000 people on the average weekday, half of all Calgary transit riders.

Since the first line opened in May, 1981, it has grown to three lines with 38 stations. A fourth line heading west from downtown is under construction, and two more are planned for the future. The expansion would eventually add 45 stations, creating a network of six spokes from the downtown hub. The annual number of riders has more than doubled over the past decade to 7.8 million, far outpacing the growth in the city's population. The C-Train is so heavily used that the city is rebuilding stations to accommodate longer trains.

To get the most track for the money in hand, Calgary built a no-frills system with simple station platforms, cheap cars, no air-conditioning and station-arrival announcements recorded on cassette tape. Without the cost of tunnelling and building underground stations, the city managed to reach far into the city's south, northeast and northwest.

Even the relatively extravagant West Line, which will include elevated track and the city's first subway station, is projected to cost $1-billion for eight kilometres of track. By comparison, Mr. Ford's plan to extend Toronto's Sheppard subway eight kilometres to Scarborough is projected at $3.6-billion, not including $500-million for a new train yard.

"Our experience out here in Calgary is that it actually works very, very well," says Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi when asked about Mr. Ford's plan to kill LRT. "I think sometimes people are a bit scared of it because they think it's like streetcars running in traffic. But if it's done well it can work brilliantly at a fraction of the cost of going underground."

Critics such as Mr. Ford like to say that in a cold winter like Toronto's, underground rail makes much more sense than LRT lines exposed to the snow and cold. Calgary has snow and cold. The LRT still runs. So does the LRT in still-colder Edmonton.

Critics also say it's folly to build rail lines on low-density suburban routes like Sheppard, Finch and Eglinton, as envisioned in the Transit City plan. Calgary's C-train goes through even less-dense terrain, passing sprawling subdivisions and malls. People take the bus or drive their cars to LRT stations, then ride it to jobs in downtown office towers. Nearly half of all downtown workers arrive by C-Train.

To be fair, Calgary's LRT differs from what was planned under Transit City. Unlike Toronto, with its scandalously haphazard, stop-and-start approach to transit expansion, Calgary planned its LRT rollout years, even decades, in advance. It restricted the number of parking spots downtown, driving up parking rates and encouraging people to take transit. It reserved segregated corridors for LRT lines so they could be kept apart from traffic. C-train routes follow railway rights-of-way or broad highway medians, with trains given priority whenever road and track intersect. Toronto would have to carve out new medians on streets such as Sheppard, leaving less space for traffic.

Mr. Nenshi himself says that LRT is not the be all and end all. In some parts of Calgary, he argues, it might make more sense to put in segregated bus ways than to lay down expensive LRT track. In the same way, though, in some parts of Toronto it might be better to put in light rail than to spend a fortune on underground subway track.

It depends on the situation. What is wrong is to dismiss any mode of transit out of hand without considering how it actually works elsewhere. Before the mayor buries Toronto's light-rail plans and splurges on a subway, he might want to look at Calgary's C-Train success story.

 

[drum118]

Yes, it is true the cuts were announced less than a month ago ... but I don't see how a related report qualifies as 'last minute', like the sudden rush to vote on essential service. You just put the topic on the agenda and mark it "Report to Follow" or some such, no? It must be an obscure procedural thing or else it was overlooked (!) -- or there is a desire to affect the number of deputations. Or the cuts are not in a report at all ...

We shall see.

And closer to this topic... what's to stop the commission from introducing the LRT v. Subway report at the last minute, with the result that citizens have difficulty preparing to depute? (And do they still call it deputing?)

ed

One needs to have a presentation written by now so it can be file at a drop of the hat if it shows up as a supplementary agenda either on Monday or Tuesday. My presentation was ready for the December meeting on the LRT vs Subway.

I noticed that there is nothing on the agenda for bus cuts considering it was supposed to come back at the Feb meeting, so it could meet the May Board changes.

These supplementary agenda are a way to get around having the public not in the house to speak on the matter and fast track the item. deputing is correct.

 

[Ed Drass]

My presentation was ready for the December meeting on the LRT vs Subway.

Hmmm -Dave, have you posted that dep here? I'm sure it would attract some constructive criticism... ;^)

FYI: From TEA:

Dear Friend,

Thank you to the thousands of you that have emailed and called your Councillors, the Mayor and your MPPs about transit in Toronto. We're having an impact!

Tell the TTC to save transit

Now, we need you to call the TTC Commissioners. Each of the Councillors who make up the Toronto Transit Commission represent you! Pick any of the commissioners below and take a minute to call them to let them know:

* You support the Transit City light rail plan, including the Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West, Scarborough and Sheppard LRT lines.
* City Council - your elected representatives - must have the opportunity to vote on transit expansion plans.
* You don't support service cuts to evening, weekend and seasonal service on 48 bus routes throughout our City.
* The TTC cannot delay the rollout of the 204 new modern Light Rail Vehicles that are to replace our old, crowded streetcars. Commissioners must support the LRV Maintenance and Storage Facility at Ashbridges Bay

Commissioner Karen Stintz - Chair - 416-392-4090
Commissioner Peter Milczyn - Vice Chair - 416-392-4040
Commissioner Maria Augimeri - 416-392-4021
Commissioner Vincent Crisanti - 416-392-0205
Commissioner Frank Di Giorgio - 416-392-4066
Commissioner Norm Kelly* - 416-392-4047
Commissioner Denzil Minnan-Wong* - 416-397-9256
Commissioner Cesar Palacio - 416-392-7011
Commissioner John Parker - 416-392-0215

*Commissioners Minnan-Wong and Kelly voted against public consultation on the proposed 48 bus route cuts at the TTC's January meeting.

TTC Meeting - February 2nd
On Wednesday February 2nd, the TTC is holding a meeting to discuss service cuts. TEA will be there with a clear message that Toronto doesn't want transit service cuts.

You can attend this meeting and speak, or send a written deputation. Register to speak or email your comments to gso@ttc.ca before Tuesday February 1 at 12:00pm.* More info on deputations here.

*Say that you want to speak about “Bus Service Reallocations and the Report on the Ashbridges Bay Maintenance and Storage Facility”.

sidecar sidebar:

Join a TTCriders canvass team this weekend:

Finch West - Ward 7
Saturday January 29th - 1pm

Finch West - Ward 23
Saturday January 29th - 1pm

Scarborough East - Wards 43/44
Saturday January 29th - 12pm

Eglinton West - Ward 12
Sunday January 30th - 1pm

Thanks to you...
In just a few weeks, we've mobilized volunteers to talk to people across Toronto about the impact of transit service cuts and the need for transit expansion across Toronto.

We've sent over 12,000 emails and letters to Council and the Mayor; knocked on more than 20,000 doors; coordinated 30-50 people each weekend to ride buses and go door to door in North York, Etobicoke and Scarborough to talk to transit users; had dozens of volunteers calling TEA members to give updates; and reached out to community groups and business associations across the City.

We've also attended community events, city budget consultations, TTC bus cut consultations and held our own meetings with Councillors to discuss Transit.

Thanks for helping to bring better transit and clean air to Toronto!

>>endquote

 

[Irishmonk]

I just fired off this missive to the local and provincial braintrust, via this email link: http://www.emailthem.ca

Dear Mayor Ford, Toronto Councillors, Premier McGuinty, Toronto MPPs, and Metrolinx:

For decades now Toronto has been stuck in the quagmire of stalled public transit plans. The refrain is always the same: the sitting administration conjures up an ambitious rapid transit expansion, money is committed, construction finally begins; then said administration is voted out of office, new administration cancels old plan, and mothballs the work that was started. This happened with Premier Peterson, Premier Rae and now with ex Mayor Miller and his grand vision for Transit City. Years of careful planning and research have already been employed, billions of dollars committed, contracts signed, equipment purchased, workers hired and work on one line well in progress.

And all of this vast and complex effort undone by the four word proclamation of one man, on one morning early in December: "Transit City is dead". Why? Because that man, elected to be Mayor by a minority of 47% people in a city he has no apparent fondness for, apparently doesn't like street cars.

So that's what transit planning in a modern, sophisticated, internationally respected metropolis in the 21st century has come down to: one man, one phobia and one ill-considered remark. And, "poof", it's all gone. One needs to cast one's gaze back to rule of kings and emperors to find such brazen pronouncements of individual power. But this is not ancient Rome or 17th century France. In this day and age, visionary, generation spanning projects like Transit City do not get vapourized by the fickle and vain whims of a lone man. That is not how things are done now, and to accede to this delusional one man rule, the collective brain trust of this city and province would have to be seen as having lost its mind--not to mention its spine and self respect.

Honourable gentlemen, ladies, all of you who hold sway over the future of Transit City, please show some common sense, some backbone, some reasonable and rational thinking on this matter of great and long lasting civic importance. Do something you can be proud of in years to come and consider the needs of the citizens--yes, "citizens", not just taxpayers--who are in need of fast, reliable public transit in order to function and prosper in this city.

"Respect the taxpayer," went the refrain of the then-candidate, now-Mayor Ford--the man blocking this historic endeavour. I say, respect the citizens, the long suffering users of an inadequate transit system that has rarely shown itself to be operating in the interests of its users.

In a recent poll conducted by Leger Marketing only 15% of the participants were in favour of a total abandonment of Transit City in favour of subway lines. Yes, we all love subways, and in our dreams and fantasies they would be rumbling beneath ever major artery in this city. But in the day-to-day reality of life, this is a pipedream and we can only build what we can afford. And Transit City IS affordable. The money is there, 8.1 billion dollars from the Province, waiting to be spent. Please don't throw it away because one man wants you to. Spend it on what it was intended for. Do it for the city, and for us, the people of Toronto.

In closing, I urge all MPPs, councillors Metrolinx members, the Premier and, yes, the Mayor to keep the Transit City plan on track.

I urge everyone on this forum to contact these people before Feb 2nd and make our voices heard. (It's working in Tunisia, maybe Egypt, why not here?)

 

[Dan416]

Calling Ford's election a minority is silly. You can call basically any government in Canada a minority since no one ever gets > 50% of the popular vote (or at least very rarely). It's a partisan term to use and certainly won't endear your note to the Mayor.

I've tweeted to both Ford and Stintz about my support for subways. I urge all subway supporters to do the same. Make our silent majority voices heard.

 

[Irishmonk]

Calling Ford's election a minority is silly. You can call basically any government in Canada a minority since no one ever gets > 50% of the popular vote (or at least very rarely). It's a partisan term to use and certainly won't endear your note to the Mayor.

The 47% is relevant because Ford keeps insisting that "the people have spoken" and "the majority want subways", yadda-yadda... Such arguments have been used by others to dismiss the idea of a referendum on the issue. Well, 53% voted against Ford and his subway plan. Therefore, the validity for his argument that a majority voted against TC is void.

 

[Solid Snake]

The 47% is relevant because Ford keeps insisting that "the people have spoken" and "the majority want subways", yadda-yadda... Such arguments have been used by others to dismiss the idea of a referendum on the issue. Well, 53% voted against Ford and his subway plan. Therefore, the validity for his argument that a majority voted against TC is void.

And if Smitherman had won with the same numbers, I doubt you would use the same logic that the majority voted against Transit City. I'll take your login then. Miller's last campaign had Transit City in it. Guess what? Although the majority of voters voted for him, the majority of the city voted against him.

You can't twist democracy to your liking. Ford won, he's going to get the subway plan he campaigned on. Deal with it. Pro-subway advocate were told the same when TC was inevitable under Miller.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The 47% is relevant because Ford keeps insisting that "the people have spoken" and "the majority want subways", yadda-yadda... Such arguments have been used by others to dismiss the idea of a referendum on the issue. Well, 53% voted against Ford and his subway plan. Therefore, the validity for his argument that a majority voted against TC is void.

When the survey polls before the city election came out that Rob Ford was ahead, the polls were a accurate reflection of the population. Whe a survey poll came out on Transit City (15% for subway), the polls are inaccurate and not a trustworthy reflection of the wishes of the city.

Sorry, the majority of the city wants Transit City built now, not to be based on a phobia of one man. Yes, I would like to see subways all over Toronto, but it is too expensive and having light rail right-of-ways and light rail subways is the preferrable route to take.

 

[quicksilver]

Sorry, the majority of the city wants Transit City built now, not to be based on a phobia of one man. Yes, I would like to see subways all over Toronto, but it is too expensive and having light rail right-of-ways and light rail subways is the preferrable route to take.

I would agree that Ford's 50% mandate was to squeeze waste out of city hall, not kill Transit City. So far he's eliminated some taxes, i.e. reduced the city's revenue line, with the elimination of vehicle permit tax. He's also pushing for a reduction in library and bus services. I think it will be MUCH more difficult for him to improve delivery of services by getting more from less because it means a real drawn out fight with the city's unions and police association.

Ford is leery of this struggle, and for him killing Transit City is a much easier way to say "see, I accomplished something" even if most of the city wants it and would benefit from its implementation; even if the province and federal government are paying for it.

 

[drum118]

http://www.emailthem.ca/transitcity/

 

[quicksilver]

For me, it has been WAY too long since any of the city's media organizations, those that supposedly report our news, have reported any real news about this $9 billion or so transit project. That's a lot of money and somebody should getting the details out instead of printing puff pieces like this one in today's Star: http://www.thestar.com/news/article/930168--porter-new-ttc-chair-karen-stintz-cleans-up?bn=1