nfitz
Superstar
Cell phone signals should be available in the subway within a year or two. Contract has already been tendered as far as I know. So a non-issue by the time the first underground segment opens in 6-7 years ...
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- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
Paleo
Active Member
You're being blinded by your demagoguery. The new rolling stock is forcing them to move to off-board payment, POP, and time-based transfers not the province. Re: Presto implementation? That's terrible. The whole system is a piece of crap.
Solid Snake
Active Member
World class cities does build LRT but they already have an extensive network of Rapid Transit (HRT, Metro) as the backbone.
There's nothing world class about a city substituting LRT to subway. What scares me the most is that 50 years in the future; the'll have to bury Eglinton East LRT and at the cost/km it will be then, they'll be right to curse at this generation. Only Elevated in the east that the crosstown would make sense.
Solid Snake
Active Member
If i'm blinded by demagogy, you're certainly are with you blind fate in TTC management.
Even without POP on St. Clair, the bunching and mismanagement of that line shouldn't be as obvious. It's gross and you still have drivers that will drive the streetcars like they're driving some tourist train at at zoo. People get pissed off with good reason and not only on the streetcars.
I didn't say it can't work, just not with the TTC
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Johnny Au
Senior Member
Fakebook attracts all the ignorant people. It used to be better when it was limited to primarily liberal-minded college students. A few years after its establishment, all chaos broke loose when it opened itself to high school students, as well as the general public. Now, the rightward shift is so great that it can no longer be reversed. Now we know why the Big Blue Network chose the colour blue (also the colour of the right) as its primary colour. Even worse, right-wingers are more willing to sell their privacy, as the website is known for its numerous privacy violations.With Transit City now approved by City Council, the effort needs to move on to selling LRTs to Torontonians. I've never seen so many ignorant comments on my Facebook feed. I've spent the day today correcting myths and trying to educate my friends and their friends. David Miller's biggest failure was not selling Transit City to Torontonians. He was busy getting the Province to pay for it but with Torontonians behind it, Ford might never have been elected, and he surely would not have been able to illegally cancel it for a year.
CodeRedTO has a good place to start with these posters: http://coderedto.com/?page_id=48
I had to use this one a lot today to combat the comments that "World class cities build subways!!1!"
We should set up a social network with red or orange as its primary colour and attract mainly progressive-thinking people to counter the Big Blue Network and have it become popular as well. Go Code Red!
Tuscani01
Senior Member
We can always choose to build the DRL and extend it up to Eglinton, instead of using money to convert the Eglinton LRT into a subway. That would reduce the need for conversion.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
Most people in the Toronto area DO NOT work downtown. Although the DRL is needed to deal with expansion in downtown employment, most employment is in the burbs. If the Eglinton LRT is overcrowded with people going crosstown, then we will be forced to waste money ripping it up 20 years from now and replacing it with a subway and the DRL will be useless for this purpose.
Do we really think that we can meaningfully improve crosstown commutes using low capacity tram lines? Using the 401 as an example, the LRT might have enough capacity to handle people using the express lanes, but if all the people using the collector lanes use it as well than it will be totally and completely overwhelmed. Add in all the drivers on Sheppard, Eglinton, Lawrence, York Mills, Finch etc. and all the users of overcrowded buses running along those roads and you get way more people than a slow/low capacity streetcar line can handle. The only way to fix traffic congestion in the suburbs is to build a network of subways, elevated subways, and high frequency commuter trains, and connect them to all the major suburban employment areas (e.g. Airport Corporate Centre, Pearson Airport, Eglinton/Yonge, North York Centre, Eglinton/DVP, Consumers Rd., Leslie/7, Scarborough Centre).
Do we really think that we can meaningfully improve crosstown commutes using low capacity tram lines? Using the 401 as an example, the LRT might have enough capacity to handle people using the express lanes, but if all the people using the collector lanes use it as well than it will be totally and completely overwhelmed. Add in all the drivers on Sheppard, Eglinton, Lawrence, York Mills, Finch etc. and all the users of overcrowded buses running along those roads and you get way more people than a slow/low capacity streetcar line can handle. The only way to fix traffic congestion in the suburbs is to build a network of subways, elevated subways, and high frequency commuter trains, and connect them to all the major suburban employment areas (e.g. Airport Corporate Centre, Pearson Airport, Eglinton/Yonge, North York Centre, Eglinton/DVP, Consumers Rd., Leslie/7, Scarborough Centre).
Electrify
Senior Member
An old, but now more relevant than ever PDF of options for the Finch-Sheppard corridor. Reading it now...
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...ases/Benefits Case _ Sheppard-Finch_Final.pdf
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...ases/Benefits Case _ Sheppard-Finch_Final.pdf
W. K. Lis
Superstar
If it doesn't support Rob Ford's ideals, it will be ignored.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
andrewpmk:
Yes, but most people in Toronto does not work at the nodes along the proposed transit lines either, and downtown is the largest employment node in the GTA - and it is concentrated in a way that is servicable by transit in an efficient manner. Besides, if you look at the figures, most of the riders use these EW lines as transfer to Yonge. What figures do you have to a) back up the assertion that somehow the line will reach saturation within 20 years; b) that DRL would be ineffective at diverting riders and c) that when it reaches saturation, that ripping it up can't be done (when we have had a history of ripping up streetcar lines for subway)
So you are proposing that we ignore all ridership projections, and somehow decide to plonk umpteen billions (which is nowhere to be found) into subway and other very high order transit lines everywhere hoping it will solve congestion issues - and in the meantime, major suburban employment areas keep on moving outward (to say, Meadowvale) where servicing them will be even more difficult and uneconomical? Sorry, even ignoring capital expenditure - the increase in operating cost alone will bankrupt the transit agencies in the region. The only way to "fix" traffic congestion is to move the suburbs in a direction of increasing density such that higher order transit becomes feasible.
AoD
Yes, but most people in Toronto does not work at the nodes along the proposed transit lines either, and downtown is the largest employment node in the GTA - and it is concentrated in a way that is servicable by transit in an efficient manner. Besides, if you look at the figures, most of the riders use these EW lines as transfer to Yonge. What figures do you have to a) back up the assertion that somehow the line will reach saturation within 20 years; b) that DRL would be ineffective at diverting riders and c) that when it reaches saturation, that ripping it up can't be done (when we have had a history of ripping up streetcar lines for subway)
So you are proposing that we ignore all ridership projections, and somehow decide to plonk umpteen billions (which is nowhere to be found) into subway and other very high order transit lines everywhere hoping it will solve congestion issues - and in the meantime, major suburban employment areas keep on moving outward (to say, Meadowvale) where servicing them will be even more difficult and uneconomical? Sorry, even ignoring capital expenditure - the increase in operating cost alone will bankrupt the transit agencies in the region. The only way to "fix" traffic congestion is to move the suburbs in a direction of increasing density such that higher order transit becomes feasible.
AoD
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rfid
New Member
The debate should be about building express tracks. We need them yesterday
Too bad nobody is debating that.
Electrify
Senior Member
How so? Ford has been floored.
Going over it, it seems they recommend interlining using Don Mills since it will cover more area, provide a single seat ride, and be cost effective. While it may do this for those going across the city, those going to midtown or downtown will still have to deal with that stupid transfer at Don Mills. The interlining via the Sheppard subway, while one of the most expensive, still makes trips heading into the city realistic as well.
That said, if we can get 10 minutes or less frequency on the Stouffville line, it can open up mobility for north Scarborough. Those heading across town can stay on tge LRT, those heading to downtown Toronto can take the GO train, and those heading to downtown North York can take the subway.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
rfid:
Express tracks will probably not offer as much benefit as a full DRL - and building underneath an existing subway line (plus retrofitting existing stations) will be even more expensive. You can sink the entire 8 billion and get very little in return.
AoD
Express tracks will probably not offer as much benefit as a full DRL - and building underneath an existing subway line (plus retrofitting existing stations) will be even more expensive. You can sink the entire 8 billion and get very little in return.
AoD
Dan416
Senior Member
I'm glad they deferred the decision on Sheppard so the subway versus LRT issue can be decided separately. I think it only makes sense to extend the Sheppard line instead of attaching an LRT stub to a subway stub. Sheppard extension west, sure, that's fine. Wouldn't consider it a priority.
BD extension to STC before SRT goes out of service only makes sense.
I hope they relook at the stop spacing on the Eglinton and Finch LRTs to make it as fast as possible, cars be damned.
BD extension to STC before SRT goes out of service only makes sense.
I hope they relook at the stop spacing on the Eglinton and Finch LRTs to make it as fast as possible, cars be damned.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
An old English saying: They couldn't organize a piss up in the brewery.